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Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:57   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
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They haven't resigned when the holy grail, ARAPA was put on the chopping block, why would they resign over a measly months pay? (sarcasm intended)
Maybe they should look at it as an 8% paycut. Perhaps that will help push them over the edge. 8%!
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 08:58   #22 (permalink)
 
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Dan, many are waiting to see what the reality is. If it is a definite attack on our lifestyles (and today would count as that btw), then many will resign. At the very least I wouldn't want to be a pax over this coming holiday season.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:05   #23 (permalink)
 
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I seriously hope you're right. I just wish the HKAOA would put something out along the lines of -
no member will take a Training position until all the C&Ters that resigned have been reinstated as C&Ters.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 11:53   #24 (permalink)
 
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Maybe NOW it's time the captains got together, took the lead and did something about this? Oh no, wait and see what happens later and then do nothing again. Mustn't temporarily give up that precious T&C title...
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 11:59   #25 (permalink)
 
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Where is the AOA leadership on this ?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 12:02   #26 (permalink)
 
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They are busy preparing for newfangled super duper HPE negotiations, and finalizing the list of more concessions to offer in exchange for less pay and more work.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 16:06   #27 (permalink)
 
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Time to vote them out then.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 17:46   #28 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtain rod View Post
They are busy preparing for newfangled super duper HPE negotiations, and finalizing the list of more concessions to offer in exchange for less pay and more work.
If thatís true, then it is all over. The best thing this Company has ever done for pilots was reject that massive package of concessions. Itís like the HKAOA got a second life. It should have been dead and buried after that, but somehow God has spared the Association from itself. Itís almost as if the Company felt sorry for us. How many lives does the HKAOA have? Surely not nine...
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 18:07   #29 (permalink)
 
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Sad

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Originally Posted by A3301FD View Post
Not one C&T Captain will resign from Training. The other Jellyfish in the sea.
Very sad and cynical however I'm sorry to say I bet that you will hear a group will now sign up for training stating "I need the money" because of the new "year end arrangements"

#Disgusted
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 00:30   #30 (permalink)
 
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Flex. It's not helpful throwing out hand grenades like that. Let's regroup over the next week and form a policy, endorsed by the AOA regarding C and T. I am making quiet protestations to former colleagues who are still in the department (and I would add that CX has effectively crossed the line with most of them). It is time for the AOA to amend the training ban, to declare that no member can join until members resigning are first re-employed in their positions when we finally reach industrial peace (...somewhere around 2098 ). If the Captains of this airline don't respond to this gross insult and discriminatory contempt shown us, then we deserve all the misery we shall have. It's time for every one of us to be counted. No place, no reason to hide anymore in the C and T department. The only legitimate response to what has just happened is our own display of contempt for their behaviour. Time to hit back and hit back hard.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 01:08   #31 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2014
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I really appreciate your rallying cry to arms Traf, keep up the good work Eventually, even the most complacent amongst our ranks will eventually see the light and have to rise up to the cause.

I appreciate that this is an anonymous forum but please don’t falter in your commitment to the pilots of this once great airline.

Kudos to you Sir!
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 01:42   #32 (permalink)
 
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The sad thing is that for the longest time I was a 'company man'. Was proud to work for a once great airline. Eventually, I came to see that the leadership of our company was self-serving, corrupt, deceitful and bullying. At some point you can't ignore the malignancy. I finally had enough and resigned from C and T. I will have very little respect or sympathy for my former colleagues who now do not do the same. Our profession, our livelihoods are at stake. Our 'leadership' is the worst in the industry. They have no sense of respect for their highly motivated and professional aircrew, just complete contempt as demonstrated by yesterdays slap in our faces. I personally will now dedicate my remaining days to making sure that pilots around the world are aware of the toxic and hopeless job that has become that of 'pilot' in CX. For those of us still here suffering under their thumb, resist at all levels, at all times. Make them hurt. That is all they will understand. I will be leaving soon, but you can be assured that I will still be here on PPRuNe shining a light on this horror that is CX management, until my last breath. That is the least I can do for my colleagues and profession.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 04:06   #33 (permalink)
 
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Traf

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
Flex. It's not helpful throwing out hand grenades like that. Let's regroup over the next week and form a policy, endorsed by the AOA regarding C and T. I am making quiet protestations to former colleagues who are still in the department (and I would add that CX has effectively crossed the line with most of them). It is time for the AOA to amend the training ban, to declare that no member can join until members resigning are first re-employed in their positions when we finally reach industrial peace (...somewhere around 2098 ). If the Captains of this airline don't respond to this gross insult and discriminatory contempt shown us, then we deserve all the misery we shall have. It's time for every one of us to be counted. No place, no reason to hide anymore in the C and T department. The only legitimate response to what has just happened is our own display of contempt for their behaviour. Time to hit back and hit back hard.
Only 100% correct Traf - frustration and cynicism taking its toll....
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 05:03   #34 (permalink)
 
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Traf, is the HKAOA President still in training?
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 15:02   #35 (permalink)
 
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Trafalgar,

I do enjoy your posts but a little self reflection and humility would further your cause.
Many of your colleagues were about 2 decades ahead of you in understanding where Cathay management was going and acted appropriately. Don’t be overly critical of any colleague who is a few weeks behind you.
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 16:11   #36 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar View Post
It's particularly good for morale to know that our DragonAir colleagues are getting their full 13th month (don't misconstrue my comment, they deserve it, as do WE). Apparently we are worth less.
I don't agree that the company perceives us as "worth less" -- I think that they view us as being "worthless".
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 04:30   #37 (permalink)
 
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Cast a strike ballot ...all it takes is a motion and second
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 05:06   #38 (permalink)
 
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Curtain

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Originally Posted by Curtain rod View Post
They are busy preparing for newfangled super duper HPE negotiations, and finalizing the list of more concessions to offer in exchange for less pay and more work.
HPE = Huge Pile of Excrement

Just another waste of millions and valuable time.
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 05:37   #39 (permalink)
 
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HPE was always a delaying tactic by the company, with the added bonus of co-opting the union into 'agreeing' to the cuts they seek. The very process was flawed from the start. With the disgraceful treatment of the pilots (and particularly the Captains), I expect a statement on Monday announcing the withdrawal from what is obviously a farcical process. No negotiation, no concessions, no letting up of CC or the TB (in fact, now is the time to for the union to suggest that CandT members resign under protest). Time to start acting like a union, and more importantly, time for the pilots to start taking their destiny into their own hands. I've seen enough abuse and disrespect to last a lifetime. How about you?
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Old 9th Dec 2017, 07:52   #40 (permalink)
 
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Wonder how theyíd function if a bunch of left seaters just didnít turn up?
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