What will YOU do to protect your pay and conditions?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hong kong
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots have been signing inferior contracts for some 20 years, with the introduction of the B-scale (and the start of the rot).
How much did A Scale improve since B-Scalers joined, what happened to the A-scale?
Blaming the C-scalers?
How much did A Scale improve since B-Scalers joined, what happened to the A-scale?
Blaming the C-scalers?
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Retired-ville
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only if we, collectively, let it.
Has the school bully finally pushed the bespectacled red haired kid just that bit too far, and he's finally going to grow a pair and punch that bully fair and square on the jaw.
Just what does it take?
Has the school bully finally pushed the bespectacled red haired kid just that bit too far, and he's finally going to grow a pair and punch that bully fair and square on the jaw.
Just what does it take?
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Retired-ville
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed DanBuster indeed.
Not only was I surprised that to right such a terrible wrong, a forceful confrontation did not ensue, but that so many quitters left when faced with paying 5%.
Very shallow.
LMF they called it in past armed conflicts.
Not only was I surprised that to right such a terrible wrong, a forceful confrontation did not ensue, but that so many quitters left when faced with paying 5%.
Very shallow.
LMF they called it in past armed conflicts.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hong kong
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The B-scalers lot in life did improve, how much did A-Scale improve since B-scalers joined, what happened to the A-Scale?
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I overheard a conversation last night in the DB Plaza that summed up everything. A group of relatively junior CX pilots were saying goodbye to one of their ADL classmates who is on his way to QA. In turn each pilot described their application and interview success so far with other companies. Then one of the group announced " look CX is a great airline and you will all want back when this blip is over "( obviously a wanna be manager ). The entire group stood up and poured their beers over her.
Cathay should have been literally shut down by the HKAOA and Cathay pilots after the disgraceful 49ers episode. The damage done and the seismic fallout continues to this day. The so - called 'star chamber' and their acolytes should hang their heads in shame. Opportunity lost I'm afraid.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...well, that opportunity was lost. No doubt. Should have all immediately stopped flying until our colleagues were back at work. Simple. However, we now have another opportunity. This time there are MANY jobs calling out to our experience and qualities. CX can't operate without pilots, although they keep trying to bluff that they can (it would be comical if it wasn't so pathetic). As to 'shame'....most of those involved in the star chamber don't know the meaning of the word. They would have been just as effective in 1939 working for the German Govt of the time...if you get my drift. Every one of them will eventually have to confront their conscience. Just glad that I am not one of them. Soulless and inherently evil to have been complicit in destroying so many people and their families (not to mention the suicide of two of them, and then one of their wives in reaction to that event). Words of contempt don't even exist to describe what they are and how I feel about them. And to think, some of them still serve the same master, and haven't gained an ounce of compassion or conscience since. Words fail me. It's time to confront this malignant entity called 'CX'.
Couldn't agree more, Trafalgar. I was in CX during the 80/90's and I know most of the protagonists both star chamber and 'victims'. Grotesquely unfair and the low lives who organised the mass sacking seemed to get away unscathed. It would appear that the 'managers' have not learnt their lesson.
Last edited by olster; 28th Nov 2017 at 18:07. Reason: spelling!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is my take on the current situation and managements strategy:
Management knows the golden years are over and the only way to survive is drop the routes that lose money and focus on the premium traffic routes as they are never to be able to compete with LCC or Chinese carriers in the economy segment. As such they have to shrink the airline by at least a third. There is no other choice as CX is losing market share anyways.
To avoid laying off the cheapest pilot labour group, strategy is to make it very unattractive to the more expensive senior pilots. I would say target is a pilot group of around 2000 and 80-90 aircraft. When all the dust has settled with cost cutting, early retirement and pilots leaving, the remainder will be made redundant (to hit the target of 2000). Time frame 3-5 years.
Management knows the golden years are over and the only way to survive is drop the routes that lose money and focus on the premium traffic routes as they are never to be able to compete with LCC or Chinese carriers in the economy segment. As such they have to shrink the airline by at least a third. There is no other choice as CX is losing market share anyways.
To avoid laying off the cheapest pilot labour group, strategy is to make it very unattractive to the more expensive senior pilots. I would say target is a pilot group of around 2000 and 80-90 aircraft. When all the dust has settled with cost cutting, early retirement and pilots leaving, the remainder will be made redundant (to hit the target of 2000). Time frame 3-5 years.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ohhhh, I see. Shrink your way to market dominance and profitability. Genius plan. Why didn't BA/UA/AA/AF/LH etc think of that. Get down to half their size and pay the pilots peanuts. Wow, I be they wish they had CX management working for them. 
(ok, seriously. CX will probably be down to half size in about 3 years...why?, because after the shutdown due not enough crew, and the subsequent public/government roasting that will follow, no one will bother flying them anymore).
(ok, seriously. CX will probably be down to half size in about 3 years...why?, because after the shutdown due not enough crew, and the subsequent public/government roasting that will follow, no one will bother flying them anymore).
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: hong kong
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"(ok, seriously. CX will probably be down to half size in about 3 years...why?, because after the shutdown due not enough crew, and the subsequent public/government roasting that will follow, no one will bother flying them anymore)."
What a great pilot victory.
"If we are sick/stressed/fatigued we don’t fly. If one day you turn up to work and realise that you will not be paid adequately for the job, then you leave. Simple, ENDEX."
I'm sure the next employer will be very happy to recruit this smart lot, and they know how to run airlines too.
What a great pilot victory.
"If we are sick/stressed/fatigued we don’t fly. If one day you turn up to work and realise that you will not be paid adequately for the job, then you leave. Simple, ENDEX."
I'm sure the next employer will be very happy to recruit this smart lot, and they know how to run airlines too.
Last edited by tsimbeit; 29th Nov 2017 at 02:54.
It has nothing to do with victory/loss.
We are pilots employed to fly safely.
If we are sick/stressed/fatigued we don’t fly.
If one day you turn up to work and realise that you will not be paid adequately for the job, then you leave. Simple, ENDEX.
We are pilots employed to fly safely.
If we are sick/stressed/fatigued we don’t fly.
If one day you turn up to work and realise that you will not be paid adequately for the job, then you leave. Simple, ENDEX.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, I see. So you are suggesting that instead of fighting for what is right, we just quit the first time management decides to devalue our career. Not only quit, but then go and start over at another job at the bottom of a seniority list. No, i'll fight thank you, as it's too late for me to switch. However, for those young enough to have a good career elsewhere, they will not only fight and cause you some pain, but they will leave as well and preserve what time they have left in a career at an airline that values them.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trafalgar
Your posts are consistent, accurate and sensible. The problem is the young pilots feel totally detached from the senior ones. The HKAOA has done nothing to address this and indeed would appear to be doing the dividing at the behest of the company. Hopeless.
Your posts are consistent, accurate and sensible. The problem is the young pilots feel totally detached from the senior ones. The HKAOA has done nothing to address this and indeed would appear to be doing the dividing at the behest of the company. Hopeless.
No Traf, I did not suggest “not fighting” to better our conditions.
I merely pointed out that at the conclusion of this management led initiative every pilot will have to individually determine whether they are sick/stressed/payed enough to continue working at CX.
It is not a war, it does not reflect badly on CX pilots, it is simply a life event.
Be careful when you start to attack your supporters, you might end up as an army of one.
I merely pointed out that at the conclusion of this management led initiative every pilot will have to individually determine whether they are sick/stressed/payed enough to continue working at CX.
It is not a war, it does not reflect badly on CX pilots, it is simply a life event.
Be careful when you start to attack your supporters, you might end up as an army of one.
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GTC58
A few years ago there was another niche airline called Swiss Air ( not the current manifistation ) and it lasted 2 years after it's plan to consolidate and reduce scale. It was taken over by it's commuter division CrossAir.
In todays industry it is expand or die. You can't expand without pilots. You can increase the hubs, destinations, admin staff, check in staff, ground staff, launch a new brand, pretend to empower your employees, but nothing moves until the PILOT says "Start Number 4 ".
Try explaining to the admin and ground staff that they are no longer needed or paid because the company has everything it needs EXCEPT PILOTS.
Then try explaining 2 years to train an SO, 5 years to upgrade to FO and 10 years to command. Try telling then to come back in 2027 when they have done this.
A few years ago there was another niche airline called Swiss Air ( not the current manifistation ) and it lasted 2 years after it's plan to consolidate and reduce scale. It was taken over by it's commuter division CrossAir.
In todays industry it is expand or die. You can't expand without pilots. You can increase the hubs, destinations, admin staff, check in staff, ground staff, launch a new brand, pretend to empower your employees, but nothing moves until the PILOT says "Start Number 4 ".
Try explaining to the admin and ground staff that they are no longer needed or paid because the company has everything it needs EXCEPT PILOTS.
Then try explaining 2 years to train an SO, 5 years to upgrade to FO and 10 years to command. Try telling then to come back in 2027 when they have done this.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Never You Mind
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the dying days of Swiss Air, all the debt from Swissport, SR Tech, Crossair and their ground handling operation was transferred to Swiss Air. When they folded the other businesses were debt free and ready to go and little Crossair turned into Swiss with wide body longhaul jets.