HKAOA -losing the plot?
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Kowloon
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UK
Age: 49
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just read the email from AOA, what a farce to give away so much. They can keep the red lanyard if they put that through will save my 800+ hkd per month on subscription fees!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Not where I want to be
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really, The AOA email was well written and reasonable unlike the shrill response from you know who, quoting unsubstantiated figures who can only repeat “ the sky is falling down, the sky is falling down.”
Bit too light on in the details with that email, change to the way 900 hours a year is counted. What does that mean? Time in the bunk not counted? Still a long way to go it seems with all the red in the table
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FFS
I am sorry good readers of pprune.... I chose the title of this thread incorrectly, it seems the HKAOA lost the plot some time ago. Apparently the GC thought the following was a good deal.
- I get to work 1/52 or 2% more and AFTLS 900 hour protection is increased and I sacrifice 20% of my earnings.
- Assuming a 5 year period, I will be earning about 20% less in year 5. (10% less in increments, 3% less in PFund and 7% less in HDP/EFP)
- I would have to move out of my house.
- I would gain some satisfaction that my colleagues on HKPA would get an increase, however their overall earnings would drop because they too would be down 20% in pay.
- The best industrial leverage we had for a generation would evaporate for absolutely no return.
In return, I would get a vague promise from a bunch of rogues with a rich history of reneging on deals (written or not) that they might;
- Return my investment.
- embrace Fleet Transfer by Seniority.
- Offer part-time work (if I could afford it!).
A couple of notes for the GC.
1. EBIT is Earning Before Interest and Tax. I think you mean EBITDA. But which ever one you use, payments to Swire and Air China are all included in EBIT and EBITDA. Basically, it's the same old manipulated numbers.
2. If you think I have my head in the sand, you are incorrect, I am really in the prone firing position ready to defend my home, 20% of my earning and my 6 weeks leave, that I firmly believe I should not be sacrificing because someone recklessly gambled on the fuel markets.
Now, those on the GC that got elected to negotiate concessions on my behalf please step forward and identify yourselves. I only voted for people who stood to protect and enhance my COS (which was all of you!).
- I get to work 1/52 or 2% more and AFTLS 900 hour protection is increased and I sacrifice 20% of my earnings.
- Assuming a 5 year period, I will be earning about 20% less in year 5. (10% less in increments, 3% less in PFund and 7% less in HDP/EFP)
- I would have to move out of my house.
- I would gain some satisfaction that my colleagues on HKPA would get an increase, however their overall earnings would drop because they too would be down 20% in pay.
- The best industrial leverage we had for a generation would evaporate for absolutely no return.
In return, I would get a vague promise from a bunch of rogues with a rich history of reneging on deals (written or not) that they might;
- Return my investment.
- embrace Fleet Transfer by Seniority.
- Offer part-time work (if I could afford it!).
A couple of notes for the GC.
1. EBIT is Earning Before Interest and Tax. I think you mean EBITDA. But which ever one you use, payments to Swire and Air China are all included in EBIT and EBITDA. Basically, it's the same old manipulated numbers.
2. If you think I have my head in the sand, you are incorrect, I am really in the prone firing position ready to defend my home, 20% of my earning and my 6 weeks leave, that I firmly believe I should not be sacrificing because someone recklessly gambled on the fuel markets.
Now, those on the GC that got elected to negotiate concessions on my behalf please step forward and identify yourselves. I only voted for people who stood to protect and enhance my COS (which was all of you!).
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ahh Natca .... You must be one one of the GC members I voted for.
We are a union, we are allowed to fight back. Some random thoughts.
- The only way the Company could force this through is to terminate all our contracts and offer us new ones in 3 months time.
- Did you see the recent reaction in the SCMP to Motion 1. How do you think the travelling public will react to the news that in 3 months Cathay may have no pilots because they just terminated all our contracts?
- Yep, I know you will wet your gusset and waddle upstairs surrounded by a leaking pool of p!ss and sign whatever's put in front of you, however some of us might just go "poker face" for 3 months.
- Within the group who go "poker face", there might be a small bunch slightly more endowned in the trouser department, who would fight for 20% of their earnings and their homes.
- I have no evidence to support this, but in the "post German-Wings" world, do think the aircraft insurers are going to be happy with a bunch of "sacked" pilots flying around the skies for 3 months on their liability? I know in the IT world, you cannot touch a company computer once your contract is terminated, do you think it's "best practice" that we get to handle $250m aircraft for 3 months?
But then again, mustn't upset the company, that gets us nowhere...... collaboration has been so successful.
We are a union, we are allowed to fight back. Some random thoughts.
- The only way the Company could force this through is to terminate all our contracts and offer us new ones in 3 months time.
- Did you see the recent reaction in the SCMP to Motion 1. How do you think the travelling public will react to the news that in 3 months Cathay may have no pilots because they just terminated all our contracts?
- Yep, I know you will wet your gusset and waddle upstairs surrounded by a leaking pool of p!ss and sign whatever's put in front of you, however some of us might just go "poker face" for 3 months.
- Within the group who go "poker face", there might be a small bunch slightly more endowned in the trouser department, who would fight for 20% of their earnings and their homes.
- I have no evidence to support this, but in the "post German-Wings" world, do think the aircraft insurers are going to be happy with a bunch of "sacked" pilots flying around the skies for 3 months on their liability? I know in the IT world, you cannot touch a company computer once your contract is terminated, do you think it's "best practice" that we get to handle $250m aircraft for 3 months?
But then again, mustn't upset the company, that gets us nowhere...... collaboration has been so successful.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I have been saying. The ONLY way this company will listen is if they themselves suffer. So, resolve to demonstrate over this holiday season, and right through and over CNY, that you and your efforts have value. This company's operation should should reflect our disgust at what the company is trying to do. If you are not willing to take individual action, then welcome to your worthless career. For those of you who have any other options of employment, now is the time to exercise it. Good luck to all.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW there would be and will be no better time for the HKAOA to strike. Ever.
Think of the BS rammed down the pike in a market favoring pilots. And it has just accelerated. And will continue to do so.
IF you buy into any future scenario, with increasing influence from Beijing (whether through influence of private carriers or government regulations) do you REALLY think they will allow ‘national assets’ to strike ? Methinks if anything were to happen it would be a one sided version of the US RLA. In future operations Beijing will have no problem enforcing a back to work order within the SARs.
So it is now or never.
I guess it will be up to the will of the membership and how they envision their future.
Think of the BS rammed down the pike in a market favoring pilots. And it has just accelerated. And will continue to do so.
IF you buy into any future scenario, with increasing influence from Beijing (whether through influence of private carriers or government regulations) do you REALLY think they will allow ‘national assets’ to strike ? Methinks if anything were to happen it would be a one sided version of the US RLA. In future operations Beijing will have no problem enforcing a back to work order within the SARs.
So it is now or never.
I guess it will be up to the will of the membership and how they envision their future.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shep. You are correct. However, there is no future. No matter the outcome, the bully boy tactics and corporate lying by the likes of DP are all that there is in store for this company for the rest of it's pathetic existence. The only real action available is to leave HK and establish a career in a part of the world where there are proper laws and processes. I will however be taking personal action over the next few months to do my part in showing this company that they have taken me for granted once too often. And the rest of us....? (and I do support a strike if called btw)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A motion of "non confidence" could force a new election for a new president and GC if the majority of the HKAOA members disagree with the current direction the HKAOA is going. Just saying .......
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: London
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is already talk of a new pilots union to be created that actually represents it's members. The shocking revelations about how much the AOA was prepared to negotiate away on behalf of the membership will only increase the calls for a new union.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Fragrant Harbour
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
baggagecart
you forgot to add that there is no more coal industry in UK. the action of the government destroyed 250,000 jobs in 10 years.
Back to HKG. It is time for a new pilots union. One that embraces all the HKG based airlines and not just CX.
I have it on good authority that "The Hong Kong Pilots Union 2018" is almost up and running.
The recent HKAOA concessions are not supported by the members and the GC should resign today. CX will then be forced to talk with the newly elected body.
So "HKPU 2018" forever.
you forgot to add that there is no more coal industry in UK. the action of the government destroyed 250,000 jobs in 10 years.
Back to HKG. It is time for a new pilots union. One that embraces all the HKG based airlines and not just CX.
I have it on good authority that "The Hong Kong Pilots Union 2018" is almost up and running.
The recent HKAOA concessions are not supported by the members and the GC should resign today. CX will then be forced to talk with the newly elected body.
So "HKPU 2018" forever.