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Anna's Friday Liar. 13/10/17

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Anna's Friday Liar. 13/10/17

Old 15th Oct 2017, 11:38
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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wrt KA, the new conditions at CX will be “offered” to them in due time when they are “invited” into a common seniority list
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 11:39
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Elsewhere the C&T community have accepted that the GC is ineffective ( true ) so have decided to cut a separate deal. AT is listening.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:03
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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If there is any truth to the deal being set up by the trainers, doesn't that really show them for who they are? We sit back and do the right thing through the training ban; just when training numbers are getting critical, they realize their strength, given to them by us by following the training ban, and cut a deal.

Should we be surprised? We all know the type of individual who jumped into training when they were requested not to!
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:21
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Uber, Hugo,
As a member of the community in question I can assure you quite vigorously that no special deals are being made; and that any attempt at double dealing would be met with outrage from said community. The informal meetings taking place are in response to initiatives from the C and T community.
Please stop with the conspiracy theories...
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:36
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Great point Dan Buster.
IF the recent C&T get together was so innocent then share it's contents.
Who initiated it ? Managers or pilots ? Answer FOP Managers. Who paid for it, individuals or management ? Answer management. Were minutes taken ? Answer yes by management as was a list of attendees. Was the AOA consulted ? Absolutely not.
It stinks.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:39
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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A frank and honest discussion regarding perspectives from the line. Nothing more and nothing less...we live in hope.

Uber..wow...I mean...WOW!
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:54
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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The meeting was held in WTC Building 7, in the offices of the Flat Earth Society. Main point of discussion was the moon landings.

There was no meeting. It was an invitation to have a chat over a few drinks in town. No special deals. Trainers in the same boat as everyone else. Sorry to disappoint all you free thinkers.

There may have been a meeting before the meeting to discuss the meeting after the meeting, but that was about three beers in.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 13:19
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uberskyjockey View Post
KA drivers keep their salaries and housing packages intact whilst CX drivers take the hit. Is that fair I ask.
Yes, its fair. All KA flight and cabin crew are on a pay freeze, since April 2016.

KA pilots negotiate KA conditions of service (their contract) . Not a third party, or none affected employees of the DAP. An Annually elected pilot only committee. For DPA pilots. None members ride on the coat tails of the majority.

Each company has plusses and minuses with regards to benefits.. To equate each is unrealistic.

I can't see much in the KA COS that can be attacked with the pilots voting for it .Its already back to the bare bone benifits . Perhaps the leave scheme could be changed, but that's not the above posters whinge.

A whinge or a whine. Fight for your own COS, its each for their own guys.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 13:37
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Uberskyjockey Wrote :

Trafalgar, I am a huge fan BUT the C&T ARE negotiating a 3 year lock-in deal whereby their package remains untouched and the training machine remains intact. FOP managers have already agreed such a deal leaving us line guys hung out to dry. In total about 400 C&T guys vs 2800 line crews. It is a safe option for AT to take.


Uber, that is UTTER, UTTER RUBBISH !!!


Seriously, if this is an example of the intelligence and naivety of some people here, we are well and truly f*cked.
Giuseppe Giovanni is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2017, 14:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Raven and Giuseppe,
You can probably put uberskyjabberjockey in the ignore column.
For a laugh, have a look at all of his vast posts (over the last 3 weeks or so) and think, what else has happened over the last 3 weeks?
Could this be one one of the upstairs types, who decides to join under a dumb user name, that we would conceivably accept as a junior gel wearing earring adorned brushwinger skygod?
Or can those with clarity see Uber for who he/she is - simply a poorly constructed profile of an "agent provocateur" working for you know who.

Ignore his/her content, and don't feed the troll.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 15:04
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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LongTime and Raven,

Sticks and stones ....... but answer the questions

1. Who initiated the meeting
2. Who paid for the drinks
3. Was it sanctioned by the AOA
4. Is there a draft letter from the C&T fraternity to AT

Answer truthfully and I will shut up
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 00:16
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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This is greatly amusing , what ! The trainers have been meeting with Management on the side ?
Hope no one is surprised in the slightest by this , no one.
Remember ‘the custodians’of cx flying culture have been training up there very own cheaper replacements for years now.....
Now they hardly haven’t been warned have they. Now that they themselves are being targeted they are scuttling about trying to pad their own selfish greedy arses from the fall that’s about to happen......
Watch this space
Trainers will take their own on the side deal.The fact that they even showed up speaks sums up who they truly are.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 01:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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The trainers will be offered a better package. It will not be increased ARAPA but instead more money in some other form. What they lose in ARAPA will be given back in another way.

Some will see it for what it is and reject the poison chalice and quit training. Those are the true professionals with integrity that won't sell out their colleagues. Others will happily accept the money and go on training their replacements until the next attack on their careers comes, and it will. These are spineless fools who have never in their lives had the balls to stand up to anybody, CX actively recruits this sort.

This scenario plays right into Anna's hands, divide the troops even more. They will throw money at the training ban to make it go away, the champagne corks will be popping when they see pilots climbing over each others backs to get into training.

You all need to see this for what it is and reject it.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 01:14
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Code:
Is there a draft letter from the C&T fraternity to AT?
Yes there is.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 01:20
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Don't forget that the "C & T Fraternity" includes the HKAOA Chairman. Amazingly.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 01:50
  #36 (permalink)  
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There is NO SEPARATE TRAINING DEAL. THERE WILL NOT BE.

Is that clear enough for all you losers out there? The trainers are trying to help.
They are not cutting a separate deal.


Now concentrate on the real enemy FFS.
 
Old 16th Oct 2017, 02:48
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Originally Posted by Uberskyjockey View Post
My point exactly. KA drivers keep their salaries and housing packages intact whilst CX drivers take the hit. Is that fair I ask.
? This is exactly the same argument being made by CX to reduce CX packages - that it isn't fair that ground staff got fired, and CX drivers haven't taken a hit, that ARAPA>>HKAPA etc.

Rather than argue and fight that KA pilots should take cuts "to be fair", maybe better to argue & fight that CX drivers shouldn't take a hit, regardless of the fairness of the situation vs other staff groups.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 03:00
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Freehills View Post
? This is exactly the same argument being made by CX to reduce CX packages - that it isn't fair that ground staff got fired, and CX drivers haven't taken a hit, that ARAPA>>HKAPA etc.

Rather than argue and fight that KA pilots should take cuts "to be fair", maybe better to argue & fight that CX drivers shouldn't take a hit, regardless of the fairness of the situation vs other staff groups.
Well the only reason we aren't being fired is that they need us. Rest assured if they didn't they would.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 03:50
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Staggers View Post
Well the only reason we aren't being fired is that they need us. Rest assured if they didn't they would.
Quite. Fairness has nothing to do with it.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 05:53
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Do we really need to assume the worst about this meeting and what trainers may or may not do before seeing any real evidence? So far posters claiming to be trainers have all said they are not making some backroom deal. Posters saying otherwise haven't presenting any evidence whatsoever. I'm inclined to believe that until I see otherwise. Please don't prove me wrong, trainers. Call me naive if you want, but we all know we can't trust our employer, if we can't trust our colleagues enough to give them the benefit of the doubt, the future is far more depressing than I'm willing to accept.
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