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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 01:49
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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I wasn't at the Focus Night but was this elephant in the room question asked?
The question was asked, and the accountant blatantly said that it didn't matter squat who the Hedge was with so stop fussing about it. DS then added that he hoped the hedge was with Swire, as then they could continue to run CX at a loss for a few years and keep us in a job, who knows?????????
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 02:14
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Originally Posted by cxorcist
Amen!!!

+1

Your turn STW, dispute that. I can hardly wait.
Probably all true. Show me one post where I dispute anything Rod said.

I knew from the start the company will not give in.

If you or Rod are "buying" what the company now says, what relevance has that? I certainly don't and I never have.

Which is why I voted in favour of the TA when it was on the table.

And you and Rod and many others didn't , instead you were busy insulting me,
and still not a word of regret.

Classy.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 03:00
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Originally Posted by crwkunt roll
The question was asked, and the accountant blatantly said that it didn't matter squat who the Hedge was with so stop fussing about it. DS then added that he hoped the hedge was with Swire, as then they could continue to run CX at a loss for a few years and keep us in a job, who knows?????????
So, did the accountant further intimate that the fuel hedge is somehow our problem now?

Furthermore, is this pineapple going to save the Company or just fatten AT's bonus?
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 05:42
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Lets take a leaf out of the Ryanair pilots actions. Non unionized with over 80 bases and 4200 pilots throughout Europe they have acted within 48 hours to have management backing down and offering huge pay increases to keep the show on the road.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 05:57
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What a waste of time.
Committees position 'same old same old' and not a single inspirational message for the troops.
HKAOA not fit for purpose.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 07:22
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Originally Posted by Progress Wanchai
Unfortunately I think the truth is more dire than some would like to believe. Hoping these muppets have the competence to pull off a major conspiracy and fraud is simply wishful thinking. The fact is they are muppets who had no more idea of where the price of fuel was heading than you or I. They gambled big simply because they can with no chance of personal loss but a 50 percent chance of personal gain in massive, unprecedented bonuses. There's nothing in the books worth hiding other than a 23 billion dollar embarrassment that the whole world knows and laughs about.

They aren't master criminals. They are incompetent.
But hey, if you can sleep easier thinking these people are brilliant then don't let me stop you.
I'm with Progress Wanchai. What's with the crazy who's-on-the-other-side-of-the-fuel-hedge conspiracy?

Occam's razor anyone?? Management at this airline are plain incompetent. They can't even run make money with a monopoly in Hong Kong, yet alone come up with some devious ingenious scheme to steal billions from their employees.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 07:34
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Close, but I think you are still incorrect, STL.

I reckon London came up with that idea. Our incompetents simply did what they were told.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 07:38
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"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 07:51
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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It would seem reasonably fair to assist the company with some form of concessions. After all, it is in our own interest that the company survives and thrives.

HOWEVER, ... BUT, ... HANG ON A SEC:

A big NO to permanent concessions! They are after immediate 10% savings from the FOP workforce. They want that from a combination of more productivity, frozen salaries, reduced housing and reduced MPF.

Concessions could be made, but only for a limited time. The obvious limited would be when the fuel hedges expire. Moving forward from that, as the company returns to profit, formula need to be in place to return the concessions via increased profit share to those who helped.

That would be a genuine WIN/WIN.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 08:15
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Arse,

Remove your head from your username.

There was a time I would have been sympathetic to helping the company out on the promise of payback. However, 2009 killed that after the backflip on 25 year Housing and them short-changing the Captains 10%.

Please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting we get it in writing. RPs were in writing and look what happened to them. Any concessions you give are permanent dispite what's written in the brochure.

Also, let's not forget that Alan Joyce got concessions from his work force to "save" Qantas. A few years later his pay doubled to $AUD 24.6m, about $HK150m.

Let's not kid ourselves as to what's about to happen. You are going to asked to do more for less so Management can prosper. You are probably going to accept this because you fear the consequences if you don't agree.

How does the quote go?.... Oh yeah... "To my bonus"
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 08:27
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone led by example on salaries, pfund, housing at board level?
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 08:53
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Liam

Sincere thanks for your completely BS reply.

In keeping with your "add nothing to the discussion" style; I would say that if anybody's head is anywhere, it is yours in the sand! At the very least blinded by bitterness.

Yes. Lets keep doing what we have for the last 25+ years. Result: LOSE/LOSE

Yes. Not returning 100% of the Captains SLS concession was pathetic.

Yes. Not honoring the 25 years housing was unconscionable.

Yes. Alan Joyce is a dick.

I am not suggesting your little Timmy writes any agreement. Perhaps professionals. Wow, ... what a concept!

I will assume you are smart enough to know the definition of insanity.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 09:05
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Arse,

I suspect you are too young to remember our very own DFO's claim that "the contract is binding in honour only".

Liam is right.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 09:07
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4905876/Ryanair-boss-Michael-O-Leary-faces-shareholders.html
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 09:09
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I agree entirely that the board was incompetent in their decision to hedge the way they did. If we give concessions I would like to see the board give similar. Lock them in to pay reductions, no bonuses, until we see serious profits again. Is that unreasonable or are they just all talk and only want the rest of the staff to suffer from their incompetance?
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 09:14
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Dear Mr Rod: A post flight beer or two? Good on you. Good for the soul.

Mr Wire: You would be very wrong about that.

Gentleman: I understand your craziness. Life would be very boring without it.

Mr Ipad: Excellent idea. Very reasonable.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 11:01
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Yep Arse,

I know the definition of insanity, it's agreeing concessions with this lot on the promise of some future reward and then being shocked when the future reward doesn't happen... 25 year Housing, Instructor Pilots, Promise to settle Paris, settling the SHP payments with FAU but not the pilots, HPE talks and then on Day 1 announce double SOs.

Interesting how you saw my comment about Joyce as him just being a dick. I used him as example as to how this game is played. Employees grant concessions, management reap the rewards... I don't think that makes him a dick....

Perhaps if you read my posts a bit more closely you might appreciate them a bit more... Just saying....
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 13:07
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Liam

Quick review. Having made a perfectly reasonable suggestion, your response so far has been to whine, bitch, moan and rant. Oh, ... and throw in a few indirect personal attacks. Excellent work!

I can only assume you have no positive suggestions to make, so therefore must be happy to take the incoming pineapple, ... while you whine, bitch, moan and rant of course? You must be such an inspiration to work with! Fantastic.

In relation to Qantas and Joyce: A few years back the Qantas pilots did exactly what I am suggesting. They gave concessions, in return for increasing future profit sharing, when certain levels were triggered. Now that Qantas has recorded their second largest profit ever, the pilots have done reasonably well! Certainly better than making permanent concessions for no return.

I am fully aware that you are so blinkered and disillusioned and there is no logical or rational argument you will accept. Just saying.

PS: I apoligise for the unreasonable amount of sarcasm. Not my first choice, but it seems to be a language you understand! The irony of that statement is not lost on me!

PPS: Would you be interested in a WIN/WIN outcome?
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 13:35
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Arse,

The Qantas pilots have done reasonably well? Really?

Want to put some numbers to that? Start from when Joyce locked them out.
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Old 22nd Sep 2017, 13:41
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Always amazes me how some are so easily fooled by the company propaganda, even by those who have been here a long time and have seen first hand how deceitful and immoral this management is. And yet like a beaten pathetic dog they come back for more punishment thinking there will be a win/win outcome by giving concessions to a management that has continually year on year given themselves huge bonuses and pay increases. You arse are a spineless cheap whore.
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