China the Country. China the delay not determined, the joke.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Maybe visual approaches and "cowboy RT" are required for more movements without infrastructure and airspace expansion. Having to hold every crews' hands onto ILS final seems a bit archaic to me. We could TCAS follow traffic ahead with decent pointouts and monitored separation, much less a visual sequence which admittedly would be difficult on most days in the HK smog. Of course, low time crews are not helping matters either. If the assertion is that the US ATC is unsafe, please support that with statistics.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: china
Age: 61
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It seems that the King Canute story is often misintepreted, as its meaning is actually the opposite of what it seems above:
King Canute and the Waves
King Canute and the Waves
As far as cowboy RT, it is often required with one minute separation and 4+ active runways at the same airport. Not a lot of time to talk to each aircraft.
Flying into and out of HKIA is a breeze. Try ORD or ATL in the afternoon bank of arrivals, and then Air India or Air China check in and try to use perfect, slow, ICAO ATC. Then it is time to "cowboy up". Yeah it is not "right". But it is required.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
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The US ATC system is the most efficient on the planet, bar none. And it accomplishes this exceptionally safely.
It DOES use a multitude of tools to accomplish things including visual approaches, visual separation, slam dunks, fast paced instructions, clipped comm, creative geometry etc (how much have you actually used a holding pattern in the US ?) So if you want to play in the park you need to be up on the game. And realize the world doesn't necessarily revolve around YOU--but solving a puzzle with a whole bunch of airplanes getting in and out of a limited amount of concrete. If you don't do this you risk getting kicked out of the game.
I don't know that even with US 'techniques' it'd help HK all that much due the limited amount of concrete. Maybe some but not as much as some might think. Mainland China for sure.
Guess I'd better be more proactive with my "trucker comm" around Asia; maybe it'll rub off on someone.
It DOES use a multitude of tools to accomplish things including visual approaches, visual separation, slam dunks, fast paced instructions, clipped comm, creative geometry etc (how much have you actually used a holding pattern in the US ?) So if you want to play in the park you need to be up on the game. And realize the world doesn't necessarily revolve around YOU--but solving a puzzle with a whole bunch of airplanes getting in and out of a limited amount of concrete. If you don't do this you risk getting kicked out of the game.
I don't know that even with US 'techniques' it'd help HK all that much due the limited amount of concrete. Maybe some but not as much as some might think. Mainland China for sure.
Guess I'd better be more proactive with my "trucker comm" around Asia; maybe it'll rub off on someone.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: hong kong
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Good old Capt X on the latest Dear Gus took all the China delays enroute HKG-LHR, landed with minimum fuel and 52+ minutes duty extension presumably on a 3 man ops. CC must be terrifying them!
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Up there
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Thanks for letting us know UNIFO.
Any chance of "monitor tower" on taxi out, auto change to departure frequency after take off and perhaps as someone else suggested a delivery frequency dedicated to China?
Any chance of "monitor tower" on taxi out, auto change to departure frequency after take off and perhaps as someone else suggested a delivery frequency dedicated to China?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hk
Age: 67
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If the tower controller wants to keep aircraft 'visually' separated on departure he must have extremely good eyesight and distance judgment with parallax error and HK smog all thrown in.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
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Auto change to departure is not a good idea because of the separation issue. Tower might need to keep to departure for a while to separate it from other traffic visually.
Why is the separation issue not a problem at the zillions of places that do autoswitch to departure?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Up there
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How about auto switch on departure is made standard except when helicopter or whatever traffic is mentioned?
Ie
" Traffic bla bla clear for takeoff bla bla remain this frequency airborne"
Auto switch could probably be used 80+% of the time
Ie
" Traffic bla bla clear for takeoff bla bla remain this frequency airborne"
Auto switch could probably be used 80+% of the time
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
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Careful CCA, you're starting to make common sense with ideas like those, and we know that doesn't work in Asia. Somebody might have to lose face. Can't have that!!!
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Uk
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I think the worst thing that ATC do is switch us from 123.8 to 119.1 approaching PORPA, just as all hell breaks loose in the cockpit as 5000' is captured (not yet cleared above) etc (although most of the lightning hands have cancelled the restriction and then get flustered!). It would seem more sensible to remain on 123.8 until after PORPA and THEN change frequency.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
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...and DXB used to have an auto switch. Now they have reverted to individual frequency changes. I presume, that due to some people continuing to auto switch they have added extra R/T in the form "XXX cleared for take off Rwy30R, remain this frequency when airborne". Coupled with the actual freq change this results in lots of extra chat on twr freq.
