Should I vote ".For" the Rule Change?
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i think the company may be OK with it. At least in the sense that it's likely to shrink and any employee with any length of service is more costly than one without.
What a shame.
What a shame.
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The future of CX is locally recruited cadets with a HK passport and few options in the future. If you look at the demographics of HKG and where a CX job puts you in earnings, without a degree I might add, it will always be regarded as a good career path for some locals. If you have 7M locals, then even if only .5% are interested you have enough to put "meat in the seats". While I think Paul is wrong about the number of resignation (I've moved up a LOT in the last year), he is right that the company doesn't really care. I fortunately have my ducks in a row and without a base will be out of here soon. It's unfortunate that this is what will become of the place that was my career goal more than 20 years ago. The key to a happy life is adaptability!!
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Sam Ting Wong
I am not sure if you are with us or against us?? Your condescending tone, mostly aimed at your colleagues, is odd at best. Silly as it may seem, you grammar is poor and you could not even spell Qantas correctly, as well as many other mistakes. My point; Credibility! You see, if you just use your so called data, or just make your opinion, then fine, Attacking your own colleagues speaks volumes of someone like you. More like what our management does, speaking down to us as though we are idiots. You sound angry and bitter and I am willing to bet you have, at some point, sold yourself and your colleagues out in some way, shape, or form. Just stop it already. You've become a nuisance and are taking away from the discussion. I hope you don't act like this in the cockpit because I'd have you removed.
People are leaving and it has got their attention PERIOD. Now what they do about it, or how they handle it, is another point. To show weakness is not their style so I, and many others, think they will retaliate as it's a sign of power. I also think that no matter, the new joiners are getting educated quickly by the old timers like me. They are quickly realizing not only whom they joined but what!
Points taken about pay but not in how people are treated by such an irresponsible company. This place is a training ground now and most will eventually leave as besides the T's&C's, this place is full of abhorrent management. Threats and intimidation, read the latest Friday Liar, courtesy of the Muppet they have now placed in the ADFO position. The blue box at the bottom telling people you will be hearing from the fleet office if your are not complying with my NTC! You know what I'd say; FU CK, you horses ass!
So there. This is what this place has become, a reality show that is so bad but you just have to watch it. Think "Here comes honey Boo Boo". It is shocking that it exists but it does.
People are leaving and it has got their attention PERIOD. Now what they do about it, or how they handle it, is another point. To show weakness is not their style so I, and many others, think they will retaliate as it's a sign of power. I also think that no matter, the new joiners are getting educated quickly by the old timers like me. They are quickly realizing not only whom they joined but what!
Points taken about pay but not in how people are treated by such an irresponsible company. This place is a training ground now and most will eventually leave as besides the T's&C's, this place is full of abhorrent management. Threats and intimidation, read the latest Friday Liar, courtesy of the Muppet they have now placed in the ADFO position. The blue box at the bottom telling people you will be hearing from the fleet office if your are not complying with my NTC! You know what I'd say; FU CK, you horses ass!
So there. This is what this place has become, a reality show that is so bad but you just have to watch it. Think "Here comes honey Boo Boo". It is shocking that it exists but it does.
Last edited by The Visionary; 12th Jul 2017 at 12:55.
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AGAINST.
Nigel D had the membership trust him (with the pretext of not giving the company enough time to react) by voting for increased industrial action without giving details.
The go slow (Maximum Safety Strategy) was a disaster. Too many guys weren't happy with it and within a matter of days the company could see via data analysis the membership was divided. There quick kick to the nuts (the 49ers) was the end of the action.
We must know what the plan is, decide if we support it and then vote. If the majority are for it then we must follow through. No saying yes to your AOA mates and then yes to the company. Have the guts to do what you say.
Nigel D had the membership trust him (with the pretext of not giving the company enough time to react) by voting for increased industrial action without giving details.
The go slow (Maximum Safety Strategy) was a disaster. Too many guys weren't happy with it and within a matter of days the company could see via data analysis the membership was divided. There quick kick to the nuts (the 49ers) was the end of the action.
We must know what the plan is, decide if we support it and then vote. If the majority are for it then we must follow through. No saying yes to your AOA mates and then yes to the company. Have the guts to do what you say.
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Back on thread... Thankfully...
CSD... Thanks for bringing this back on topic.
I assume that the 150 or so supporting "Pistol Paul's" motion will vote "against" because his motion includes the existing 20.4. Not wanting to derail the thread again, but I am not sure I can support Paul's motion (yet) and perhaps that's a debate for another day. However, it does seem there could be a bit of membership backlash to this and I am torn between supporting the GC and preserving my rights under the existing 20.4.
Assuming "The Visionary" can lay off the Domestos, I would be interested in his views. Sam TW, you often have a contrary view, but you have been here awhile and seem to think deeply about matters, what do you think? Curtain Rod, always a straight shooter, what's your take?
In fact anyone, I am interested to read your views on which way to vote.
I assume that the 150 or so supporting "Pistol Paul's" motion will vote "against" because his motion includes the existing 20.4. Not wanting to derail the thread again, but I am not sure I can support Paul's motion (yet) and perhaps that's a debate for another day. However, it does seem there could be a bit of membership backlash to this and I am torn between supporting the GC and preserving my rights under the existing 20.4.
Assuming "The Visionary" can lay off the Domestos, I would be interested in his views. Sam TW, you often have a contrary view, but you have been here awhile and seem to think deeply about matters, what do you think? Curtain Rod, always a straight shooter, what's your take?
In fact anyone, I am interested to read your views on which way to vote.
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I am torn between supporting the GC and preserving my rights under the existing 20.4.
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I had to look up Domestos as I did not get the reference. Very funny!
I do not think it is going to matter how you vote because the company is going to do whatever it wants to or needs to. This will include new contracts. There will be more redundancies coming with the closing of European freighter bases which will solve some crewing issues.
We think we have a say in "Time To Win" or anything but we really do not. We never have, we never will. TTW is not for us. It's a silly strategy to stop the stock from plummeting as the airline has lost it's standing in the arena. What I am saying is it is Time To Leave. It is not a career airline any more. A lot more realize this every day.
The airline has, for some time, always abrogated any contracts they sign. Any new "deal" will be worthless. I believe this is why the last one was voted down plus the threats again. It just angered them when we said no and then went into CC.
What's happened is the AOA has lost focus and now seem to be chasing their tails. It was supposed to be only about Rostering and now negotiations cover everything. I was so against the GFBA and RA because I knew it was a trick all along. Where did it get us.
Some bullet points to what I see coming;
.Freighters start to migrate to AHK. You can go or stay but with new contracts.
.Some can go to A350/330 but you will sign a new contract. Anyone remember how they forced people onto COS 08?
.ARAPA will be cancelled with a new contract with an allowance. Keep in mind the tax implications.
.If you are on COS99, you can go.
.CMP will not work as we simply do not have enough crews to make it work. Similarly to the money spent on EFB and Ipads. Anyone read the latest Flight Ops news letter, NO I Pads! How much money has MH cost this company now but he's still a GM, shocking really.
.The company will "Right size" the airline if it needs to.
.All of this will cost more money and will lead to the eventual demise of the airline. I give it within two to three years.
You should honestly be getting your house in order as this place cannot last long. It's become really bad. Rostering is at an all time low and the only reason the wobbly wheels stay ON the bus is we keep showing up for work. It cannot work like this. It is do to fail.
Swire will lose nothing. The slots are the real value. The airline isn't worth much. The freighter operation and terminal are worth something perhaps. FedEx or UPS would love to have it. Hainan group will probably offer something for the airline and it will be sold in pieces. Others will complain about competition and will get some scraps.
The last thing is Hong Kong is being overrun now by China. Anyone see the show of power with the Navy ships recently. Anyone watching the news, reading the papers, walking the streets. I see in about two years, tanks rolling down the strasse and another Tiananmen Square coming.
What is your health, mental and otherwise worth to you? I wonder what the three freighter pilots we lost last year would have said.
And if you think it's difficult joining the company, wait until you try to leave.
All the best. TV-OUT!
I do not think it is going to matter how you vote because the company is going to do whatever it wants to or needs to. This will include new contracts. There will be more redundancies coming with the closing of European freighter bases which will solve some crewing issues.
We think we have a say in "Time To Win" or anything but we really do not. We never have, we never will. TTW is not for us. It's a silly strategy to stop the stock from plummeting as the airline has lost it's standing in the arena. What I am saying is it is Time To Leave. It is not a career airline any more. A lot more realize this every day.
The airline has, for some time, always abrogated any contracts they sign. Any new "deal" will be worthless. I believe this is why the last one was voted down plus the threats again. It just angered them when we said no and then went into CC.
What's happened is the AOA has lost focus and now seem to be chasing their tails. It was supposed to be only about Rostering and now negotiations cover everything. I was so against the GFBA and RA because I knew it was a trick all along. Where did it get us.
Some bullet points to what I see coming;
.Freighters start to migrate to AHK. You can go or stay but with new contracts.
.Some can go to A350/330 but you will sign a new contract. Anyone remember how they forced people onto COS 08?
.ARAPA will be cancelled with a new contract with an allowance. Keep in mind the tax implications.
.If you are on COS99, you can go.
.CMP will not work as we simply do not have enough crews to make it work. Similarly to the money spent on EFB and Ipads. Anyone read the latest Flight Ops news letter, NO I Pads! How much money has MH cost this company now but he's still a GM, shocking really.
.The company will "Right size" the airline if it needs to.
.All of this will cost more money and will lead to the eventual demise of the airline. I give it within two to three years.
You should honestly be getting your house in order as this place cannot last long. It's become really bad. Rostering is at an all time low and the only reason the wobbly wheels stay ON the bus is we keep showing up for work. It cannot work like this. It is do to fail.
Swire will lose nothing. The slots are the real value. The airline isn't worth much. The freighter operation and terminal are worth something perhaps. FedEx or UPS would love to have it. Hainan group will probably offer something for the airline and it will be sold in pieces. Others will complain about competition and will get some scraps.
The last thing is Hong Kong is being overrun now by China. Anyone see the show of power with the Navy ships recently. Anyone watching the news, reading the papers, walking the streets. I see in about two years, tanks rolling down the strasse and another Tiananmen Square coming.
What is your health, mental and otherwise worth to you? I wonder what the three freighter pilots we lost last year would have said.
And if you think it's difficult joining the company, wait until you try to leave.
All the best. TV-OUT!
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"Since the GC and its President have gone ahead and endorsed LOSA (and been given CN FO SO SO for its troubles) , I'm more than happy to preserve my own rights as much as possible. Especially with this useless GC we have at the moment. I wouldn't leave them to make a Jelly."
Yes. A majority of you impressionable young clowns voted out RoFo - the most effective president we have had for some time. Huge mistake.
Huge.
Yes. A majority of you impressionable young clowns voted out RoFo - the most effective president we have had for some time. Huge mistake.
Huge.
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Yes. A majority of you impressionable young clowns voted out RoFo - the most effective president we have had for some time. Huge mistake.
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Liam,
as I think the members of the GC invest simply more time into any given issue than the average member, I expect them to be maybe a bit wiser.. I wish we had accepted the last TA, and as far as I remember the majority of the GC was indeed willing to accept the offer. I believe referendums are in general at risk to be mainly influenced by public sentiment rather than reason, see e.g. Brexit or Trump.
Having said that, I believe the future of the AOA is crucially attached to a fair and balanced composition of B and C scalers. If the GC is simply controlled by the majority, all future decisions are at risk of being biased toward C.
as I think the members of the GC invest simply more time into any given issue than the average member, I expect them to be maybe a bit wiser.. I wish we had accepted the last TA, and as far as I remember the majority of the GC was indeed willing to accept the offer. I believe referendums are in general at risk to be mainly influenced by public sentiment rather than reason, see e.g. Brexit or Trump.
Having said that, I believe the future of the AOA is crucially attached to a fair and balanced composition of B and C scalers. If the GC is simply controlled by the majority, all future decisions are at risk of being biased toward C.
The fact that the company quite happily let's the senior capts (who didn't sign for a pay and conditions reduction to enable them to stay beyond 55) retire should be a glaring example of how they feel about retaining trainers and experienced crew. It's always been about the money. Just play the game with their own rules.
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Much better Sam Ting Wong. Polite, educated and a good response. I'll give you a 5!
We are all on the same side you know. Some of our Jerseys just have more blood stains on them is all.
We are all on the same side you know. Some of our Jerseys just have more blood stains on them is all.
, but I do appreciate him making his point without ad hominem attacks. (and we ALL know who the real enemy is)