Friday Liar 19.5.17
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Friday Liar 19.5.17
A few points need highlighting:
1) the admission that CC, and the training ban are having a deleterious effect on the operation, hence the need to contract Atlas. This should be comforting as it is proof that we ARE having a serious effect. The management may wish to be bloody minded about it up to the present date, but eventually they will have to negotiate a proper settlement. Apply CC in every way possible. After all, you are only doing your jobs according to your contract.
2) Bases: yet another example of how the company is willing to manipulate and cynically play with peoples (families) lives and happiness. They have been using bases as an industrial tool for over 10 years now. They want to get us to roll over and compromise on terms and conditions on bases. That will eventually be used against all pilots on all bases (and HK). Simply say no. It should also be pointed out that the problem with the NY base is yet again the company's failure to research all issues properly (a 24 year history of that and counting). They have found there is a legal impediment to their overtime credit plans, and of course, they now want the pilots to pay the price. Again, simply say no.
3) Freighter crew 'constraints': an admission (as if we needed one) that they currently can't crew the freighters properly. Considering that the sickness rate is off the charts, as well as average hours well below the normal 84 credit level, they instead have to hire an outside company to properly service some of our contracts (or incur huge financial penalties). Again, when they come to their senses and negotiate a proper contract with the pilots, then we will show 'goodwill' to help solve their problems (unless they leave it so late that none of us care anymore).
The cracks in the company are showing, and growing wider. Their usual arrogance and stubbornness will take them even further down the road of loss and chaos before a grownup will finally say 'enough'. Hopefully that day isn't too far away. In the meantime, be certain that the management have brought us to this sorry place, and they have the ability to fix it. More of the same (intimidation, rostering chaos, tinkering) will not suffice. Sit on your hands, do your jobs and know that we are the ones who have been abused and mistreated.
1) the admission that CC, and the training ban are having a deleterious effect on the operation, hence the need to contract Atlas. This should be comforting as it is proof that we ARE having a serious effect. The management may wish to be bloody minded about it up to the present date, but eventually they will have to negotiate a proper settlement. Apply CC in every way possible. After all, you are only doing your jobs according to your contract.
2) Bases: yet another example of how the company is willing to manipulate and cynically play with peoples (families) lives and happiness. They have been using bases as an industrial tool for over 10 years now. They want to get us to roll over and compromise on terms and conditions on bases. That will eventually be used against all pilots on all bases (and HK). Simply say no. It should also be pointed out that the problem with the NY base is yet again the company's failure to research all issues properly (a 24 year history of that and counting). They have found there is a legal impediment to their overtime credit plans, and of course, they now want the pilots to pay the price. Again, simply say no.
3) Freighter crew 'constraints': an admission (as if we needed one) that they currently can't crew the freighters properly. Considering that the sickness rate is off the charts, as well as average hours well below the normal 84 credit level, they instead have to hire an outside company to properly service some of our contracts (or incur huge financial penalties). Again, when they come to their senses and negotiate a proper contract with the pilots, then we will show 'goodwill' to help solve their problems (unless they leave it so late that none of us care anymore).
The cracks in the company are showing, and growing wider. Their usual arrogance and stubbornness will take them even further down the road of loss and chaos before a grownup will finally say 'enough'. Hopefully that day isn't too far away. In the meantime, be certain that the management have brought us to this sorry place, and they have the ability to fix it. More of the same (intimidation, rostering chaos, tinkering) will not suffice. Sit on your hands, do your jobs and know that we are the ones who have been abused and mistreated.
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While constantly changing rosters increase the fatigue level resulting in a loss of some pilots, logically the pilots that are working should be bouncing along at 90+ hrs a month.
That is simply NOT happening, thus as usual CX is full of ****.
YOUR jets are sitting on the ground for in excess of 12hrs a day and YOUR crew are barely doing 60hrs a month.
It's your incompetence and arrogance CX management that means Atlas is the answer.
Watch how bad it gets fot the CX 747 operation when scheduling and ICM have to react to keeping the Atlas contact running perfectly so you can say "see atlas was a great idea".
Buttheads
That is simply NOT happening, thus as usual CX is full of ****.
YOUR jets are sitting on the ground for in excess of 12hrs a day and YOUR crew are barely doing 60hrs a month.
It's your incompetence and arrogance CX management that means Atlas is the answer.
Watch how bad it gets fot the CX 747 operation when scheduling and ICM have to react to keeping the Atlas contact running perfectly so you can say "see atlas was a great idea".
Buttheads
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And after a successful ATLAS "trial" a limited no of airframes will be loaned to ATLAS to continue said trial. The B747 is becoming too troublesome, too many are not being intimidated, too many fatigued and going UF, too many near miss incidents due fatigue.
Rather than fix the roster the whole train set will be offloaded at the nearest pawn store for a fraction of its worth, along with those pesky pilots. Time To Whine.
Rather than fix the roster the whole train set will be offloaded at the nearest pawn store for a fraction of its worth, along with those pesky pilots. Time To Whine.
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Another possibility is that CX will simply siphone off more and more freighter flying to Atlas, perhaps with aircraft included at some point. Emirates has Atlas crews fly their 2 x 747-400 freighters. Honestly, I don't care. Get rid of all the freighters if you want to have Atlas make most of the money. Seriously, good riddance to a fleet that literally kills people.
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Originally Posted by cxorcist
Emirates has Atlas crews fly their 2 x 747-400 freighters.
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Unfortunately I think this is just another example of what management will do to exert control and save face at all costs.
This will inevitably turn out to be just another stuff up that would have cost much less had the company done things right in the first place.
Time to Win, for Atlas
This will inevitably turn out to be just another stuff up that would have cost much less had the company done things right in the first place.
Time to Win, for Atlas
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This weeks Friday Liar has her asking (tricking) us into thinking we are getting something with CMP/PBS. Meanwhile they violate the RPS AND AFTLs on a daily basis. NO MORE!
Dear Ms T, NO MORE COMMITMENTS UNTIL WE GET ONE FORM YOU!
Dear HKAOA, DO NOT TALK TO THEM UNTIL WE GET A COMMITMENT FROM THEM. How did that GFBA/RA work out for us?
I personally love the "People Departments" Person, TOs, address to us this week. What utter BS. Stop already. We don't buy managements rubbish nonsense talk anymore.
Dear CAD, Please remove AT as DFO, she is not fit to be a DFO. Thank you.
Dear Ms T, NO MORE COMMITMENTS UNTIL WE GET ONE FORM YOU!
Dear HKAOA, DO NOT TALK TO THEM UNTIL WE GET A COMMITMENT FROM THEM. How did that GFBA/RA work out for us?
I personally love the "People Departments" Person, TOs, address to us this week. What utter BS. Stop already. We don't buy managements rubbish nonsense talk anymore.
Dear CAD, Please remove AT as DFO, she is not fit to be a DFO. Thank you.
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CR, you and I have disagreed on many things, but you are RIGHT ON THE MONEY with your post. I think we have wasted enough man hours/years dealing with these disingenuous and Machiavellian people. List our demands, list all the broken promises and outright lies and then tell them that they know where to find us when they can get serious. Otherwise, as someone else mentioned, set a date a year from now for a review of the situation. Until then they can deal with CC/TB and let the the chips fall where they may.
Oh, and btw, we MUST NOT fall into the trap of sourcing our own health care. I believe that is exactly the company's strategy. Put the burden for looking after ourselves and our families onto our own account. It is the company's moral responsibility (and therein lies the problem) to provide full and effective coverage to their hard working staff and families. If there was ever a reason to down tools, this should be it.
Oh, and btw, we MUST NOT fall into the trap of sourcing our own health care. I believe that is exactly the company's strategy. Put the burden for looking after ourselves and our families onto our own account. It is the company's moral responsibility (and therein lies the problem) to provide full and effective coverage to their hard working staff and families. If there was ever a reason to down tools, this should be it.
Maybe we can use the "cost savings" from the currently budgeted, but unfunded and soon to be cancelled CMP project to put into a pilot only health insurance fund?
Or, will the virtual savings just be a magnificent justification for future bonuses?
Now that the majority of HK based pilots are on local packages, why do they need "expat" legacy health benefits?
Or, will the virtual savings just be a magnificent justification for future bonuses?
Now that the majority of HK based pilots are on local packages, why do they need "expat" legacy health benefits?
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The facts are that we are 35-45% underpaid for the aircraft we fly. Also, we do not have a proper pension, or health insurance. There is no real bidding system. Pilots can't bid for an aircraft type change every two years (to keep seniority in check). If you are RQ, you are working as a Captain on almost every flight for free - Other airlines would have two Captains for most of our Long haul flights. At the same time, you are sacrificing your upgrade. Trainers and Checkers have given their lives to the company, and people who work in the office have sacrificed their souls for the company.... and they are not being compensated properly for this level of work.
Now, lets get this show moving. United + 3% sounds good to me for pay, and might as well throw in the rest of their contract too. Otherwise, lets shut this place down. it's not rocket science.
Now, lets get this show moving. United + 3% sounds good to me for pay, and might as well throw in the rest of their contract too. Otherwise, lets shut this place down. it's not rocket science.
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I'm sure that CX would be happy to do United +3% if we are happy to rid them of housing and education allowances. UAL doesn't have those. Might want to reconsider that plan...
Trainers and checkers are well remunerated for their extra responsibility. They volunteer for it, and don't do it out of charity. They don't 'give their lives'. They can always quit training. Some of them on this forum bang on about how bad things are but continue to 'help' the company in this role.
It can also be argued that they are voluntarily diluting our contract by training pilots who are on lower conditions than their own, who will eventually replace them and us, thereby contributing to the Race to the Bottom.
cxorcist, would I be right in saying that UAL pilots would be living in their home country, and would not require housing and education, just like CX based crew, as opposed to a fit and proper 'expat' package that HKG pilots should be getting?
It can also be argued that they are voluntarily diluting our contract by training pilots who are on lower conditions than their own, who will eventually replace them and us, thereby contributing to the Race to the Bottom.
cxorcist, would I be right in saying that UAL pilots would be living in their home country, and would not require housing and education, just like CX based crew, as opposed to a fit and proper 'expat' package that HKG pilots should be getting?
Last edited by Captain Dart; 4th Jun 2017 at 22:58.
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Its not rocket science at all. Its called unity.
And this pilot group does not have enough of it to even get Cathay +3%
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It can also be argued that they are voluntarily diluting our contract by training pilots who are on lower conditions than their own, who will eventually replace them and us, thereby contributing to the Race to the Bottom