Thirteen Reasons Why...
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Thirteen Reasons Why...
Cathay Pacific Airways is committing suicide.
1. For the last 40+ years, the Hong Kong aviation market has been a POT OF GOLD! Most airlines consider Hong Kong one of their most cherished routes. On the doorstep of Mainland China, a huge market that has been gradually opening to more capitalism and subsequent growth, the opportunities have been nearly limitless. The geographic advantage of Hong Kong cannot be understated. From the Kangaroo Route to the North Pacific and every place Southeast and Subcontinent Asian in between, Hong Kong has always had more than just strong origin and destination traffic from the financial and manufacturing sectors of the Pearl River Delta, but also huge potential as a global and regional passenger/cargo hub to compete with any airline. Unfortunately, many of these opportunities have been "missed", but worse than that, the relatively easy success of the past has bred a culture of apathy and arrogance that haunts CX to this day.
2. COLONIALISM is an undeniable part of the Swire's past. Without revisiting all that this entailed historically, it is still very much a part of the management culture at CX today. The emphasis on "profits over people" has produced a general feeling amongst staff that they are not valued. This, in turn, has affected the service levels that CX passengers receive from disenfranchised staff. As passengers are faced with ever more airlines choices, they are increasingly choosing other options. These are not just low fare customers, but also premium paying business travelers whom have witnessed first-hand the CX product decay. All the while, despite dwindling profits and horrid gambles on fuel hedges, the directors receive ever increasing bonuses awarded to them by the board.
3. VERTICAL SILO MANAGEMENT is a hallmark of CX. This highly territorial and bureaucratic method of being solely concerned with one's own department's budget is incredibly shortsighted and inefficient. Airlines are extremely interoperable as many departments have huge impacts on one another. To ignore this dynamic to the degree that CX regularly does based purely on historical precedent defies logic and represents a massive leadership failure. Departments heavily entrenched in vertical silo management become individual "kingdoms" more concerned with themselves than the greater needs of the Company. 21st century information technology, the increased speed & quantity of information flow and the exponential computer processing power available, presents vast opportunities to "right the ship." Thus far, I have seen little to indicate that this is changing for the better. Perhaps the redundancy of 30% of office staff will create higher reliance on IT and, thereby, increase interconnectivity between departments.
4. LACK OF CREATIVITY haunts CX in ways unimaginable. The inability to problem solve is legendary in China. The Chinese are masters of emulation, but Mao killed creativity and problem solving initiative for generations. Ironically, the Chinese dynasties were centuries ahead of those on other continents. Therefore, this is not a racial, but a present day cultural, issue. One would assume that the influence of Swire management, which is predominantly British, would help with this problem, but that does not seem to be the case. I believe those problems stem from placing non-airline managers into operational positions. Zoologists and soft drink bottlers have no business running airlines because the differences are too vast. Airline operations are complex and becoming more so. The directors running them need to be experts in both the operations and the financial aspects of the business.
5. LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY is a big problem at CX. While the staff are regularly reviewed and held accountable, it seems that directors at CX do not share in this tradition. When was the last time a director was actually sacked in lieu of being quietly shuffled to another Swire business or being allowed to retire comfortably? More importantly, when was a director ever denied a bonus larger than those of previous years? Who is being held accountable for the disastrous fuel hedges that are doing massive damage to the CX balance sheet? Similarly, who is being held accountable for the horrible relations between CX and its pilots? How much has been gained versus lost as a result of the years-long conflict? Was one 3-crew LHR pattern really worth destroying all goodwill between 3000+ pilots and the Company? Whose decision was that? Is s/he being held accountable?
6. IGNORING INDUSTRY STANDARDS is another common failure at CX. The arrogant and prideful mentality of "we know best" is rampant within the many "kingdoms" inside the Company. I'm not really sure where all of this pomp comes from, but I suspect its roots are in the Hong Kong POT OF GOLD and Swire COLONIALISM. Much of airline industry operates in very similar fashions, but CX operates well outside the mainstream. While that was for several decades a source of pride, it has in the past several years become an embarrassment as those other airlines are handily outperforming CX. Wise managers would explore how other airlines conduct business and tweak those processes to suit their own operations, but CX managers like to "re-create the wheel" and come up with cheaper alternatives. We have all seen how this goes (ugh, heavy sigh). Most often, it is more cost effective to just do it right the first time, even if that means paying a bit more up front.
7. CX knows the COST OF EVERYTHING BUT THE VALUE OF NOTHING. Make no mistake, CX has amazing accountants. They know what everything costs right down to the penny, but they have no idea about what represents good value. Perhaps this is the byproduct of Hong Kong being so expensive. The value associated with the cost becomes lost in the fog of rampant inflation. Prices in Hong Kong have become so disconnected from actual value on items like real estate and food that perhaps the whole concept of value itself has been lost.
8. LAWLESSNESS is another problem for CX. I have never in my entire life witnessed a company that gets fined and sued as much as CX. Why is that? Some is just bitter and disenfranchised staff, but mostly it is because CX lives in the gray areas of the law. The Company has paid multiple fines for cargo price fixing. They have had to address charges of age discrimination in multiple jurisdictions. Taxes have gone unpaid in Europe. There have been cases settled against CX in the UK and all the way to the High Court in Hong Kong. If CX is going to be a top-shelf international company, then it must be willing to comply with the laws of the jurisdictions in which it operates and employs staff. Hong Kong is a very employer friendly city, but much of the rest of world is going the other direction. CX needs better qualified managers to ensure that business done overseas complies with the laws there.
9. The HIGH COST OF LIVING in Hong Kong is really hurting CX. Paying high quality staff a livable wage in Hong Kong is difficult. In the past decade, I have seen the skills and qualifications of new joiners go down dramatically. It is embarrassing that CX has literally hundreds of its pilots living with their parents in Hong Kong. Suitable applicants are simply not willing to come to CX and endure the cost of living in Hong Kong. Yet, CX cannot continue to pay well above industry average wages long term and expect to thrive against competitors from elsewhere whose employees cost significantly less. There are two solutions for this problem: outport staff (basings) and technology (more machines and fewer people).
10. TRAINING at CX has always been a problem. Improvements have been made, but there is a long ways to go yet. That it takes many months to train a new captain is ridiculous. A solidly experienced first officer should take no more than one or two months to become a captain. Similarly, that it takes as many as 80 sectors to sign off a junior first officer is absurd. That failures are so common says much more about the recruiting and training departments than it does about the trainees. Also, upgrade training inevitably brings or keeps pilots on the Hong Kong base. Upgrades and fleet decisions should be made to get pilots out of Hong Kong and onto bases, not to keep them in HK where they are most expensive.
11. PROMOTION FROM WITHIN versus acquiring outsiders makes change difficult. Nearly every new CX manager is cut from the same mold. They are Swire princes or princesses from high profile universities whom have navigated the Swire/CX gauntlet. They all think the same way. If they did not, they would long since have been sacked. Free thinkers and those willing to venture outside their "silo" do not last at CX. These are the only Swire managers you will ever observe being visibly removed. Why? Because they have broken "the code" and every Swire knows what that is through observations like these. Usually, those who are publicly removed are either from the outside or have lost their Swire discipline and called CX's stupidity out. In short, CX managers know who butters their bread, and getting the job done right is less important than keeping your job.
12. Why does all this occur? One reason... because POWER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFITS at CX. The whole "house of cards" comes crashing down once "the help" comes to think they have any power over their employers. This "house of cards" is both colonial and Asian. It is all about showing who is boss and saving face. Never mind that "the help" are significant stakeholders in the Company and its success or failure as well. What matters most at CX is that they know their place. This defies logic because if these employees are desiring a career, then their connectedness to the Company is every bit as strong as any director. Arguably, they are more vested in the long term health of the Company because they will NOT be receiving a golden parachute and shuffled to another Swire company when things go pear-shaped.
13. Every time there is a suicide, the inevitable question is why. Often, there is no obvious answer, but one truth always remains... BECAUSE THEY CAN. I don't know why CX seems determined to kill itself. The above are certainly contributors but not the whole explanation. Maybe the Swires don't really care about CX. Maybe they are trying to sell it. Perhaps CX is more about branding and bragging rights than actually making money from a successful company. Perhaps the other Swire companies in Asia benefit from CX in ways that are not commonly or well understood. Maybe the recent failures are not fully comprehended in London. Perhaps the constant BS the Company is always shoveling at its employees is actually believed in London. That would be hard to imagine, but I have always heard that staff "updates" are actually written for those above, not below. Could it be that simple? Do Mom and Dad (London Swires and the Mainland Chinese) simply have no idea what is going on in the life of their teenager (CX)? I am really starting to wonder if the adults will show up before it is too late. Even if they do, will they know how to fix it? Perhaps it is time for some professional help. I believe there are outsiders who could save CX, but I doubt anyone at CX now or anywhere within Swire can get the job done. God help us...
1. For the last 40+ years, the Hong Kong aviation market has been a POT OF GOLD! Most airlines consider Hong Kong one of their most cherished routes. On the doorstep of Mainland China, a huge market that has been gradually opening to more capitalism and subsequent growth, the opportunities have been nearly limitless. The geographic advantage of Hong Kong cannot be understated. From the Kangaroo Route to the North Pacific and every place Southeast and Subcontinent Asian in between, Hong Kong has always had more than just strong origin and destination traffic from the financial and manufacturing sectors of the Pearl River Delta, but also huge potential as a global and regional passenger/cargo hub to compete with any airline. Unfortunately, many of these opportunities have been "missed", but worse than that, the relatively easy success of the past has bred a culture of apathy and arrogance that haunts CX to this day.
2. COLONIALISM is an undeniable part of the Swire's past. Without revisiting all that this entailed historically, it is still very much a part of the management culture at CX today. The emphasis on "profits over people" has produced a general feeling amongst staff that they are not valued. This, in turn, has affected the service levels that CX passengers receive from disenfranchised staff. As passengers are faced with ever more airlines choices, they are increasingly choosing other options. These are not just low fare customers, but also premium paying business travelers whom have witnessed first-hand the CX product decay. All the while, despite dwindling profits and horrid gambles on fuel hedges, the directors receive ever increasing bonuses awarded to them by the board.
3. VERTICAL SILO MANAGEMENT is a hallmark of CX. This highly territorial and bureaucratic method of being solely concerned with one's own department's budget is incredibly shortsighted and inefficient. Airlines are extremely interoperable as many departments have huge impacts on one another. To ignore this dynamic to the degree that CX regularly does based purely on historical precedent defies logic and represents a massive leadership failure. Departments heavily entrenched in vertical silo management become individual "kingdoms" more concerned with themselves than the greater needs of the Company. 21st century information technology, the increased speed & quantity of information flow and the exponential computer processing power available, presents vast opportunities to "right the ship." Thus far, I have seen little to indicate that this is changing for the better. Perhaps the redundancy of 30% of office staff will create higher reliance on IT and, thereby, increase interconnectivity between departments.
4. LACK OF CREATIVITY haunts CX in ways unimaginable. The inability to problem solve is legendary in China. The Chinese are masters of emulation, but Mao killed creativity and problem solving initiative for generations. Ironically, the Chinese dynasties were centuries ahead of those on other continents. Therefore, this is not a racial, but a present day cultural, issue. One would assume that the influence of Swire management, which is predominantly British, would help with this problem, but that does not seem to be the case. I believe those problems stem from placing non-airline managers into operational positions. Zoologists and soft drink bottlers have no business running airlines because the differences are too vast. Airline operations are complex and becoming more so. The directors running them need to be experts in both the operations and the financial aspects of the business.
5. LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY is a big problem at CX. While the staff are regularly reviewed and held accountable, it seems that directors at CX do not share in this tradition. When was the last time a director was actually sacked in lieu of being quietly shuffled to another Swire business or being allowed to retire comfortably? More importantly, when was a director ever denied a bonus larger than those of previous years? Who is being held accountable for the disastrous fuel hedges that are doing massive damage to the CX balance sheet? Similarly, who is being held accountable for the horrible relations between CX and its pilots? How much has been gained versus lost as a result of the years-long conflict? Was one 3-crew LHR pattern really worth destroying all goodwill between 3000+ pilots and the Company? Whose decision was that? Is s/he being held accountable?
6. IGNORING INDUSTRY STANDARDS is another common failure at CX. The arrogant and prideful mentality of "we know best" is rampant within the many "kingdoms" inside the Company. I'm not really sure where all of this pomp comes from, but I suspect its roots are in the Hong Kong POT OF GOLD and Swire COLONIALISM. Much of airline industry operates in very similar fashions, but CX operates well outside the mainstream. While that was for several decades a source of pride, it has in the past several years become an embarrassment as those other airlines are handily outperforming CX. Wise managers would explore how other airlines conduct business and tweak those processes to suit their own operations, but CX managers like to "re-create the wheel" and come up with cheaper alternatives. We have all seen how this goes (ugh, heavy sigh). Most often, it is more cost effective to just do it right the first time, even if that means paying a bit more up front.
7. CX knows the COST OF EVERYTHING BUT THE VALUE OF NOTHING. Make no mistake, CX has amazing accountants. They know what everything costs right down to the penny, but they have no idea about what represents good value. Perhaps this is the byproduct of Hong Kong being so expensive. The value associated with the cost becomes lost in the fog of rampant inflation. Prices in Hong Kong have become so disconnected from actual value on items like real estate and food that perhaps the whole concept of value itself has been lost.
8. LAWLESSNESS is another problem for CX. I have never in my entire life witnessed a company that gets fined and sued as much as CX. Why is that? Some is just bitter and disenfranchised staff, but mostly it is because CX lives in the gray areas of the law. The Company has paid multiple fines for cargo price fixing. They have had to address charges of age discrimination in multiple jurisdictions. Taxes have gone unpaid in Europe. There have been cases settled against CX in the UK and all the way to the High Court in Hong Kong. If CX is going to be a top-shelf international company, then it must be willing to comply with the laws of the jurisdictions in which it operates and employs staff. Hong Kong is a very employer friendly city, but much of the rest of world is going the other direction. CX needs better qualified managers to ensure that business done overseas complies with the laws there.
9. The HIGH COST OF LIVING in Hong Kong is really hurting CX. Paying high quality staff a livable wage in Hong Kong is difficult. In the past decade, I have seen the skills and qualifications of new joiners go down dramatically. It is embarrassing that CX has literally hundreds of its pilots living with their parents in Hong Kong. Suitable applicants are simply not willing to come to CX and endure the cost of living in Hong Kong. Yet, CX cannot continue to pay well above industry average wages long term and expect to thrive against competitors from elsewhere whose employees cost significantly less. There are two solutions for this problem: outport staff (basings) and technology (more machines and fewer people).
10. TRAINING at CX has always been a problem. Improvements have been made, but there is a long ways to go yet. That it takes many months to train a new captain is ridiculous. A solidly experienced first officer should take no more than one or two months to become a captain. Similarly, that it takes as many as 80 sectors to sign off a junior first officer is absurd. That failures are so common says much more about the recruiting and training departments than it does about the trainees. Also, upgrade training inevitably brings or keeps pilots on the Hong Kong base. Upgrades and fleet decisions should be made to get pilots out of Hong Kong and onto bases, not to keep them in HK where they are most expensive.
11. PROMOTION FROM WITHIN versus acquiring outsiders makes change difficult. Nearly every new CX manager is cut from the same mold. They are Swire princes or princesses from high profile universities whom have navigated the Swire/CX gauntlet. They all think the same way. If they did not, they would long since have been sacked. Free thinkers and those willing to venture outside their "silo" do not last at CX. These are the only Swire managers you will ever observe being visibly removed. Why? Because they have broken "the code" and every Swire knows what that is through observations like these. Usually, those who are publicly removed are either from the outside or have lost their Swire discipline and called CX's stupidity out. In short, CX managers know who butters their bread, and getting the job done right is less important than keeping your job.
12. Why does all this occur? One reason... because POWER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFITS at CX. The whole "house of cards" comes crashing down once "the help" comes to think they have any power over their employers. This "house of cards" is both colonial and Asian. It is all about showing who is boss and saving face. Never mind that "the help" are significant stakeholders in the Company and its success or failure as well. What matters most at CX is that they know their place. This defies logic because if these employees are desiring a career, then their connectedness to the Company is every bit as strong as any director. Arguably, they are more vested in the long term health of the Company because they will NOT be receiving a golden parachute and shuffled to another Swire company when things go pear-shaped.
13. Every time there is a suicide, the inevitable question is why. Often, there is no obvious answer, but one truth always remains... BECAUSE THEY CAN. I don't know why CX seems determined to kill itself. The above are certainly contributors but not the whole explanation. Maybe the Swires don't really care about CX. Maybe they are trying to sell it. Perhaps CX is more about branding and bragging rights than actually making money from a successful company. Perhaps the other Swire companies in Asia benefit from CX in ways that are not commonly or well understood. Maybe the recent failures are not fully comprehended in London. Perhaps the constant BS the Company is always shoveling at its employees is actually believed in London. That would be hard to imagine, but I have always heard that staff "updates" are actually written for those above, not below. Could it be that simple? Do Mom and Dad (London Swires and the Mainland Chinese) simply have no idea what is going on in the life of their teenager (CX)? I am really starting to wonder if the adults will show up before it is too late. Even if they do, will they know how to fix it? Perhaps it is time for some professional help. I believe there are outsiders who could save CX, but I doubt anyone at CX now or anywhere within Swire can get the job done. God help us...
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I wanted to write something like this but I have given up caring anymore honestly.
From a business perspective, I understand the need to change. The industry has always been fluid and always will be. You must adapt and overcome or go out of business. This place, however, has become so morally corrupt and unethical that it bothers my sensibilities.
I honestly believe that the management of this company are disturbed. I do not mean that in a funny way but in a true way. The year(s) that JS and AT joined were the beginning of the end. They do not have the business acumen nor the fortitude to fix the issues. It's not just the pilot's or any staff, it's the airline as a whole. It has lost its moral compass and its mojo, so to speak.
Books of interest to read are; "Frank Lorenzo and the destruction of Eastern airlines" AND "From Worst to First" about saving Continental. Also, "A Splash of Colors" about Braniff. These books are great in that they show what happens when management mismanages and destroys not only a brand but peoples lives.
The ideology they have held onto for so long will destroy this company and dare I say it might need to die. I do not want to see people hurt but they already are and this company will continue to do the same thing over and over until it burns to the ground. You have a choice, get busy living or get busy dying. They have no couth.
All of this bothers me greatly as I see what it doing to myself and others. It's why I say it's Time to Leave not Time to win.
From a business perspective, I understand the need to change. The industry has always been fluid and always will be. You must adapt and overcome or go out of business. This place, however, has become so morally corrupt and unethical that it bothers my sensibilities.
I honestly believe that the management of this company are disturbed. I do not mean that in a funny way but in a true way. The year(s) that JS and AT joined were the beginning of the end. They do not have the business acumen nor the fortitude to fix the issues. It's not just the pilot's or any staff, it's the airline as a whole. It has lost its moral compass and its mojo, so to speak.
Books of interest to read are; "Frank Lorenzo and the destruction of Eastern airlines" AND "From Worst to First" about saving Continental. Also, "A Splash of Colors" about Braniff. These books are great in that they show what happens when management mismanages and destroys not only a brand but peoples lives.
The ideology they have held onto for so long will destroy this company and dare I say it might need to die. I do not want to see people hurt but they already are and this company will continue to do the same thing over and over until it burns to the ground. You have a choice, get busy living or get busy dying. They have no couth.
All of this bothers me greatly as I see what it doing to myself and others. It's why I say it's Time to Leave not Time to win.
Last edited by The Visionary; 11th May 2017 at 05:22.
I think they want you to leave, your replacement will be cheaper than you, so they Win.
Of course if more trainers keep leaving then the capacity to upgrade the cheaper replacement starts to disappear.....
Of course if more trainers keep leaving then the capacity to upgrade the cheaper replacement starts to disappear.....
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Well said.
Also - the rise of significant local competition. HKE shows that there is a market for low cost in HKG, and HKA is now "good enough" to be a threat. Are HX as good as CX? No. But you get 80% of the quality for half the price.
Also - the rise of significant local competition. HKE shows that there is a market for low cost in HKG, and HKA is now "good enough" to be a threat. Are HX as good as CX? No. But you get 80% of the quality for half the price.
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What a load of gibberish.
1. For the last 40+ years, the Hong Kong aviation market has been a POT OF GOLD! Most airlines consider Hong Kong one of their most cherished routes. On the doorstep of Mainland China, a huge market that has been gradually opening to more capitalism and subsequent growth, the opportunities have been nearly limitless. The geographic advantage of Hong Kong cannot be understated. From the Kangaroo Route to the North Pacific and every place Southeast and Subcontinent Asian in between, Hong Kong has always had more than just strong origin and destination traffic from the financial and manufacturing sectors of the Pearl River Delta, but also huge potential as a global and regional passenger/cargo hub to compete with any airline. Unfortunately, many of these opportunities have been "missed", but worse than that, the relatively easy success of the past has bred a culture of apathy and arrogance that haunts CX to this day.
What "opportunities" have been missed? What "apathy"? Empty waffle.
Yes, it WAS a pot of gold, but things change.You completely ignore the rise of competition that wasn't there 10 or 20 years, mainly Chinese airlines and Gulf casrriers.
2. COLONIALISM is an undeniable part of the Swire's past. Without revisiting all that this entailed historically, it is still very much a part of the management culture at CX today. The emphasis on "profits over people" has produced a general feeling amongst staff that they are not valued. This, in turn, has affected the service levels that CX passengers receive from disenfranchised staff. As passengers are faced with ever more airlines choices, they are increasingly choosing other options. These are not just low fare customers, but also premium paying business travelers whom have witnessed first-hand the CX product decay. All the while, despite dwindling profits and horrid gambles on fuel hedges, the directors receive ever increasing bonuses awarded to them by the board.
You are contradicting yourself. Just a minute ago you were praising the past ( see 1), now it is the root of all evil. What has colonialism to do with our cabin product? are you on drugs?
3. VERTICAL SILO MANAGEMENT is a hallmark of CX. This highly territorial and bureaucratic method of being solely concerned with one's own department's budget is incredibly shortsighted and inefficient. Airlines are extremely interoperable as many departments have huge impacts on one another. To ignore this dynamic to the degree that CX regularly does based purely on historical precedent defies logic and represents a massive leadership failure. Departments heavily entrenched in vertical silo management become individual "kingdoms" more concerned with themselves than the greater needs of the Company. 21st century information technology, the increased speed & quantity of information flow and the exponential computer processing power available, presents vast opportunities to "right the ship." Thus far, I have seen little to indicate that this is changing for the better. Perhaps the redundancy of 30% of office staff will create higher reliance on IT and, thereby, increase interconnectivity between departments.
So just to get this straight. In 2.) you are promoting "profits over people", but now you think firing 30% is a good way to enhance IT? Or are you implying "people" are only certain individuals, preferably those with a colonial past maybe? What proof do you have for your claim in Cathay "territorial" methods have caused problems? Can you produce any real arguments at all or just copy and paste from a 1980's management for dummies textbook? Are you not embarrassed to produce such meaningless vapouring?
4. LACK OF CREATIVITY haunts CX in ways unimaginable. The inability to problem solve is legendary in China. The Chinese are masters of emulation, but Mao killed creativity and problem solving initiative for generations. Ironically, the Chinese dynasties were centuries ahead of those on other continents. Therefore, this is not a racial, but a present day cultural, issue. One would assume that the influence of Swire management, which is predominantly British, would help with this problem, but that does not seem to be the case. I believe those problems stem from placing non-airline managers into operational positions. Zoologists and soft drink bottlers have no business running airlines because the differences are too vast. Airline operations are complex and becoming more so. The directors running them need to be experts in both the operations and the financial aspects of the business.
Again, what a contradiction! What a disgraceful load of drivel. So it's not colonialism, now it's Mao? Can you not see what anutter rubbish you are talking? Hong Kong is one of the most successful economic centers of the planet and you are blaming Mao and " lack of creativity"? And I am really really grateful that you don't blame the Chinese "race", very gracious of you.
5. LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY is a big problem at CX. While the staff are regularly reviewed and held accountable, it seems that directors at CX do not share in this tradition. When was the last time a director was actually sacked in lieu of being quietly shuffled to another Swire business or being allowed to retire comfortably? More importantly, when was a director ever denied a bonus larger than those of previous years? Who is being held accountable for the disastrous fuel hedges that are doing massive damage to the CX balance sheet? Similarly, who is being held accountable for the horrible relations between CX and its pilots? How much has been gained versus lost as a result of the years-long conflict? Was one 3-crew LHR pattern really worth destroying all goodwill between 3000+ pilots and the Company? Whose decision was that? Is s/he being held accountable?
ALL our competitors are doing this trip with 3 men!!!!! What are talking about? It was a trial and thankjesusthelord it was stopped. What goodwill? Are you joking? Your view is so egocentric it hurts. And managers getting a golden parachute is, as you know very well, a problem not only of Cathay but of our entire economy!And what difference does it make?? What difference would it make if Ivan would now retire instead of moving to China???
6. IGNORING INDUSTRY STANDARDS is another common failure at CX. The arrogant and prideful mentality of "we know best" is rampant within the many "kingdoms" inside the Company. I'm not really sure where all of this pomp comes from, but I suspect its roots are in the Hong Kong POT OF GOLD and Swire COLONIALISM. Much of airline industry operates in very similar fashions, but CX operates well outside the mainstream. While that was for several decades a source of pride, it has in the past several years become an embarrassment as those other airlines are handily outperforming CX. Wise managers would explore how other airlines conduct business and tweak those processes to suit their own operations, but CX managers like to "re-create the wheel" and come up with cheaper alternatives. We have all seen how this goes (ugh, heavy sigh). Most often, it is more cost effective to just do it right the first time, even if that means paying a bit more up front.
TELL ME PLEASE WHICH AIRLINES YOU ARE TALKING OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!
EMIRATES???????? CHINA SOUTHERN?????? ARE YOU COMPLETELY MENTAL?????
7. CX knows the COST OF EVERYTHING BUT THE VALUE OF NOTHING. Make no mistake, CX has amazing accountants. They know what everything costs right down to the penny, but they have no idea about what represents good value. Perhaps this is the byproduct of Hong Kong being so expensive. The value associated with the cost becomes lost in the fog of rampant inflation. Prices in Hong Kong have become so disconnected from actual value on items like real estate and food that perhaps the whole concept of value itself has been lost.
OH, so know it's the entire Hong Kong economy who is behind all this, glad you give Mao a rest.
8. LAWLESSNESS is another problem for CX. I have never in my entire life witnessed a company that gets fined and sued as much as CX. Why is that? Some is just bitter and disenfranchised staff, but mostly it is because CX lives in the gray areas of the law. The Company has paid multiple fines for cargo price fixing. They have had to address charges of age discrimination in multiple jurisdictions. Taxes have gone unpaid in Europe. There have been cases settled against CX in the UK and all the way to the High Court in Hong Kong. If CX is going to be a top-shelf international company, then it must be willing to comply with the laws of the jurisdictions in which it operates and employs staff. Hong Kong is a very employer friendly city, but much of the rest of world is going the other direction. CX needs better qualified managers to ensure that business done overseas complies with the laws there.
Are you living on planet earth???????? ALL airlines have these problems!!! Lufthansa has endured a dozen strikes in the last couple of years, even more lawsuits! About a dozen airlines have been fined, United just made news for beating their passengers, Quatar is imprisoning their female staff, no unions at Emirates, everyday you can read about this. Your ignorance is beyond belief, unf@ckingbelievable.
9. The HIGH COST OF LIVING in Hong Kong is really hurting CX. Paying high quality staff a livable wage in Hong Kong is difficult. In the past decade, I have seen the skills and qualifications of new joiners go down dramatically. It is embarrassing that CX has literally hundreds of its pilots living with their parents in Hong Kong. Suitable applicants are simply not willing to come to CX and endure the cost of living in Hong Kong. Yet, CX cannot continue to pay well above industry average wages long term and expect to thrive against competitors from elsewhere whose employees cost significantly less. There are two solutions for this problem: outport staff (basings) and technology (more machines and fewer people).
No kidding, HK is a high cost environment?? Thank you so much for that insight. You are a genius.I am in awe, you just opened my eyes.
10. TRAINING at CX has always been a problem. Improvements have been made, but there is a long ways to go yet. That it takes many months to train a new captain is ridiculous. A solidly experienced first officer should take no more than one or two months to become a captain. Similarly, that it takes as many as 80 sectors to sign off a junior first officer is absurd. That failures are so common says much more about the recruiting and training departments than it does about the trainees. Also, upgrade training inevitably brings or keeps pilots on the Hong Kong base. Upgrades and fleet decisions should be made to get pilots out of Hong Kong and onto bases, not to keep them in HK where they are most expensive.
Our command failure rates are not very high actually. Thing of the past.Again, a very egocentric view. Meaningless businesswise.
11. PROMOTION FROM WITHIN versus acquiring outsiders makes change difficult. Nearly every new CX manager is cut from the same mold. They are Swire princes or princesses from high profile universities whom have navigated the Swire/CX gauntlet. They all think the same way. If they did not, they would long since have been sacked. Free thinkers and those willing to venture outside their "silo" do not last at CX. These are the only Swire managers you will ever observe being visibly removed. Why? Because they have broken "the code" and every Swire knows what that is through observations like these. Usually, those who are publicly removed are either from the outside or have lost their Swire discipline and called CX's stupidity out. In short, CX managers know who butters their bread, and getting the job done right is less important than keeping your job.
So having managers from high profile universities is a BAD THING???? You prefer Mr Wong from Community College Mongkok? What proof do you have the Swre culture is a bad influence? Any evidence???? Jus a few years ago Cathay ( under Swire management then as today) was highly profitable, voted best airline for multiple times, and now it is the Swire culture which is the culprit? Makes no sense whatsoever.
12. Why does all this occur? One reason... because POWER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFITS at CX. The whole "house of cards" comes crashing down once "the help" comes to think they have any power over their employers. This "house of cards" is both colonial and Asian. It is all about showing who is boss and saving face. Never mind that "the help" are significant stakeholders in the Company and its success or failure as well. What matters most at CX is that they know their place. This defies logic because if these employees are desiring a career, then their connectedness to the Company is every bit as strong as any director. Arguably, they are more vested in the long term health of the Company because they will NOT be receiving a golden parachute and shuffled to another Swire company when things go pear-shaped.
First of all, no business is a democracy. what are you, a Marxist?
Then, you are saying profits are more important than people, now power is more important than profits, and it is not only a problem of "colonialism" alone, but also "Asian". And the"help" comes after the employers,but the we have at the same time "lawlessness" and influences of Mao. Now you really got me confused. Mind you, all of that has not changed for the last 50 or 100 years, it CAN'T be the reason for anything that happened last 5 years, don't you get that??
13. Every time there is a suicide, the inevitable question is why. Often, there is no obvious answer, but one truth always remains... BECAUSE THEY CAN. I don't know why CX seems determined to kill itself. The above are certainly contributors but not the whole explanation. Maybe the Swires don't really care about CX. Maybe they are trying to sell it. Perhaps CX is more about branding and bragging rights than actually making money from a successful company. Perhaps the other Swire companies in Asia benefit from CX in ways that are not commonly or well understood. Maybe the recent failures are not fully comprehended in London. Perhaps the constant BS the Company is always shoveling at its employees is actually believed in London. That would be hard to imagine, but I have always heard that staff "updates" are actually written for those above, not below. Could it be that simple? Do Mom and Dad (London Swires and the Mainland Chinese) simply have no idea what is going on in the life of their teenager (CX)? I am really starting to wonder if the adults will show up before it is too late. Even if they do, will they know how to fix it? Perhaps it is time for some professional help. I believe there are outsiders who could save CX, but I doubt anyone at CX now or anywhere within Swire can get the job done. God help us...
Excellent idea. I reduce profits in order to sell it better. Now, wait.. Maybe they want to commit suicide, the sell it.. no wait, I got it now! We need outsiders, but at the same time promotion from within! ok, no that doesn't work.. Wait!! I got it!! No colonialism, but help from LONDON!! That's it!!!
PH, you really really need to retire, I can't take this anymore.
You are killing me!!!!!!!!!
1. For the last 40+ years, the Hong Kong aviation market has been a POT OF GOLD! Most airlines consider Hong Kong one of their most cherished routes. On the doorstep of Mainland China, a huge market that has been gradually opening to more capitalism and subsequent growth, the opportunities have been nearly limitless. The geographic advantage of Hong Kong cannot be understated. From the Kangaroo Route to the North Pacific and every place Southeast and Subcontinent Asian in between, Hong Kong has always had more than just strong origin and destination traffic from the financial and manufacturing sectors of the Pearl River Delta, but also huge potential as a global and regional passenger/cargo hub to compete with any airline. Unfortunately, many of these opportunities have been "missed", but worse than that, the relatively easy success of the past has bred a culture of apathy and arrogance that haunts CX to this day.
What "opportunities" have been missed? What "apathy"? Empty waffle.
Yes, it WAS a pot of gold, but things change.You completely ignore the rise of competition that wasn't there 10 or 20 years, mainly Chinese airlines and Gulf casrriers.
2. COLONIALISM is an undeniable part of the Swire's past. Without revisiting all that this entailed historically, it is still very much a part of the management culture at CX today. The emphasis on "profits over people" has produced a general feeling amongst staff that they are not valued. This, in turn, has affected the service levels that CX passengers receive from disenfranchised staff. As passengers are faced with ever more airlines choices, they are increasingly choosing other options. These are not just low fare customers, but also premium paying business travelers whom have witnessed first-hand the CX product decay. All the while, despite dwindling profits and horrid gambles on fuel hedges, the directors receive ever increasing bonuses awarded to them by the board.
You are contradicting yourself. Just a minute ago you were praising the past ( see 1), now it is the root of all evil. What has colonialism to do with our cabin product? are you on drugs?
3. VERTICAL SILO MANAGEMENT is a hallmark of CX. This highly territorial and bureaucratic method of being solely concerned with one's own department's budget is incredibly shortsighted and inefficient. Airlines are extremely interoperable as many departments have huge impacts on one another. To ignore this dynamic to the degree that CX regularly does based purely on historical precedent defies logic and represents a massive leadership failure. Departments heavily entrenched in vertical silo management become individual "kingdoms" more concerned with themselves than the greater needs of the Company. 21st century information technology, the increased speed & quantity of information flow and the exponential computer processing power available, presents vast opportunities to "right the ship." Thus far, I have seen little to indicate that this is changing for the better. Perhaps the redundancy of 30% of office staff will create higher reliance on IT and, thereby, increase interconnectivity between departments.
So just to get this straight. In 2.) you are promoting "profits over people", but now you think firing 30% is a good way to enhance IT? Or are you implying "people" are only certain individuals, preferably those with a colonial past maybe? What proof do you have for your claim in Cathay "territorial" methods have caused problems? Can you produce any real arguments at all or just copy and paste from a 1980's management for dummies textbook? Are you not embarrassed to produce such meaningless vapouring?
4. LACK OF CREATIVITY haunts CX in ways unimaginable. The inability to problem solve is legendary in China. The Chinese are masters of emulation, but Mao killed creativity and problem solving initiative for generations. Ironically, the Chinese dynasties were centuries ahead of those on other continents. Therefore, this is not a racial, but a present day cultural, issue. One would assume that the influence of Swire management, which is predominantly British, would help with this problem, but that does not seem to be the case. I believe those problems stem from placing non-airline managers into operational positions. Zoologists and soft drink bottlers have no business running airlines because the differences are too vast. Airline operations are complex and becoming more so. The directors running them need to be experts in both the operations and the financial aspects of the business.
Again, what a contradiction! What a disgraceful load of drivel. So it's not colonialism, now it's Mao? Can you not see what anutter rubbish you are talking? Hong Kong is one of the most successful economic centers of the planet and you are blaming Mao and " lack of creativity"? And I am really really grateful that you don't blame the Chinese "race", very gracious of you.
5. LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY is a big problem at CX. While the staff are regularly reviewed and held accountable, it seems that directors at CX do not share in this tradition. When was the last time a director was actually sacked in lieu of being quietly shuffled to another Swire business or being allowed to retire comfortably? More importantly, when was a director ever denied a bonus larger than those of previous years? Who is being held accountable for the disastrous fuel hedges that are doing massive damage to the CX balance sheet? Similarly, who is being held accountable for the horrible relations between CX and its pilots? How much has been gained versus lost as a result of the years-long conflict? Was one 3-crew LHR pattern really worth destroying all goodwill between 3000+ pilots and the Company? Whose decision was that? Is s/he being held accountable?
ALL our competitors are doing this trip with 3 men!!!!! What are talking about? It was a trial and thankjesusthelord it was stopped. What goodwill? Are you joking? Your view is so egocentric it hurts. And managers getting a golden parachute is, as you know very well, a problem not only of Cathay but of our entire economy!And what difference does it make?? What difference would it make if Ivan would now retire instead of moving to China???
6. IGNORING INDUSTRY STANDARDS is another common failure at CX. The arrogant and prideful mentality of "we know best" is rampant within the many "kingdoms" inside the Company. I'm not really sure where all of this pomp comes from, but I suspect its roots are in the Hong Kong POT OF GOLD and Swire COLONIALISM. Much of airline industry operates in very similar fashions, but CX operates well outside the mainstream. While that was for several decades a source of pride, it has in the past several years become an embarrassment as those other airlines are handily outperforming CX. Wise managers would explore how other airlines conduct business and tweak those processes to suit their own operations, but CX managers like to "re-create the wheel" and come up with cheaper alternatives. We have all seen how this goes (ugh, heavy sigh). Most often, it is more cost effective to just do it right the first time, even if that means paying a bit more up front.
TELL ME PLEASE WHICH AIRLINES YOU ARE TALKING OF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!
EMIRATES???????? CHINA SOUTHERN?????? ARE YOU COMPLETELY MENTAL?????
7. CX knows the COST OF EVERYTHING BUT THE VALUE OF NOTHING. Make no mistake, CX has amazing accountants. They know what everything costs right down to the penny, but they have no idea about what represents good value. Perhaps this is the byproduct of Hong Kong being so expensive. The value associated with the cost becomes lost in the fog of rampant inflation. Prices in Hong Kong have become so disconnected from actual value on items like real estate and food that perhaps the whole concept of value itself has been lost.
OH, so know it's the entire Hong Kong economy who is behind all this, glad you give Mao a rest.
8. LAWLESSNESS is another problem for CX. I have never in my entire life witnessed a company that gets fined and sued as much as CX. Why is that? Some is just bitter and disenfranchised staff, but mostly it is because CX lives in the gray areas of the law. The Company has paid multiple fines for cargo price fixing. They have had to address charges of age discrimination in multiple jurisdictions. Taxes have gone unpaid in Europe. There have been cases settled against CX in the UK and all the way to the High Court in Hong Kong. If CX is going to be a top-shelf international company, then it must be willing to comply with the laws of the jurisdictions in which it operates and employs staff. Hong Kong is a very employer friendly city, but much of the rest of world is going the other direction. CX needs better qualified managers to ensure that business done overseas complies with the laws there.
Are you living on planet earth???????? ALL airlines have these problems!!! Lufthansa has endured a dozen strikes in the last couple of years, even more lawsuits! About a dozen airlines have been fined, United just made news for beating their passengers, Quatar is imprisoning their female staff, no unions at Emirates, everyday you can read about this. Your ignorance is beyond belief, unf@ckingbelievable.
9. The HIGH COST OF LIVING in Hong Kong is really hurting CX. Paying high quality staff a livable wage in Hong Kong is difficult. In the past decade, I have seen the skills and qualifications of new joiners go down dramatically. It is embarrassing that CX has literally hundreds of its pilots living with their parents in Hong Kong. Suitable applicants are simply not willing to come to CX and endure the cost of living in Hong Kong. Yet, CX cannot continue to pay well above industry average wages long term and expect to thrive against competitors from elsewhere whose employees cost significantly less. There are two solutions for this problem: outport staff (basings) and technology (more machines and fewer people).
No kidding, HK is a high cost environment?? Thank you so much for that insight. You are a genius.I am in awe, you just opened my eyes.
10. TRAINING at CX has always been a problem. Improvements have been made, but there is a long ways to go yet. That it takes many months to train a new captain is ridiculous. A solidly experienced first officer should take no more than one or two months to become a captain. Similarly, that it takes as many as 80 sectors to sign off a junior first officer is absurd. That failures are so common says much more about the recruiting and training departments than it does about the trainees. Also, upgrade training inevitably brings or keeps pilots on the Hong Kong base. Upgrades and fleet decisions should be made to get pilots out of Hong Kong and onto bases, not to keep them in HK where they are most expensive.
Our command failure rates are not very high actually. Thing of the past.Again, a very egocentric view. Meaningless businesswise.
11. PROMOTION FROM WITHIN versus acquiring outsiders makes change difficult. Nearly every new CX manager is cut from the same mold. They are Swire princes or princesses from high profile universities whom have navigated the Swire/CX gauntlet. They all think the same way. If they did not, they would long since have been sacked. Free thinkers and those willing to venture outside their "silo" do not last at CX. These are the only Swire managers you will ever observe being visibly removed. Why? Because they have broken "the code" and every Swire knows what that is through observations like these. Usually, those who are publicly removed are either from the outside or have lost their Swire discipline and called CX's stupidity out. In short, CX managers know who butters their bread, and getting the job done right is less important than keeping your job.
So having managers from high profile universities is a BAD THING???? You prefer Mr Wong from Community College Mongkok? What proof do you have the Swre culture is a bad influence? Any evidence???? Jus a few years ago Cathay ( under Swire management then as today) was highly profitable, voted best airline for multiple times, and now it is the Swire culture which is the culprit? Makes no sense whatsoever.
12. Why does all this occur? One reason... because POWER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PROFITS at CX. The whole "house of cards" comes crashing down once "the help" comes to think they have any power over their employers. This "house of cards" is both colonial and Asian. It is all about showing who is boss and saving face. Never mind that "the help" are significant stakeholders in the Company and its success or failure as well. What matters most at CX is that they know their place. This defies logic because if these employees are desiring a career, then their connectedness to the Company is every bit as strong as any director. Arguably, they are more vested in the long term health of the Company because they will NOT be receiving a golden parachute and shuffled to another Swire company when things go pear-shaped.
First of all, no business is a democracy. what are you, a Marxist?
Then, you are saying profits are more important than people, now power is more important than profits, and it is not only a problem of "colonialism" alone, but also "Asian". And the"help" comes after the employers,but the we have at the same time "lawlessness" and influences of Mao. Now you really got me confused. Mind you, all of that has not changed for the last 50 or 100 years, it CAN'T be the reason for anything that happened last 5 years, don't you get that??
13. Every time there is a suicide, the inevitable question is why. Often, there is no obvious answer, but one truth always remains... BECAUSE THEY CAN. I don't know why CX seems determined to kill itself. The above are certainly contributors but not the whole explanation. Maybe the Swires don't really care about CX. Maybe they are trying to sell it. Perhaps CX is more about branding and bragging rights than actually making money from a successful company. Perhaps the other Swire companies in Asia benefit from CX in ways that are not commonly or well understood. Maybe the recent failures are not fully comprehended in London. Perhaps the constant BS the Company is always shoveling at its employees is actually believed in London. That would be hard to imagine, but I have always heard that staff "updates" are actually written for those above, not below. Could it be that simple? Do Mom and Dad (London Swires and the Mainland Chinese) simply have no idea what is going on in the life of their teenager (CX)? I am really starting to wonder if the adults will show up before it is too late. Even if they do, will they know how to fix it? Perhaps it is time for some professional help. I believe there are outsiders who could save CX, but I doubt anyone at CX now or anywhere within Swire can get the job done. God help us...
Excellent idea. I reduce profits in order to sell it better. Now, wait.. Maybe they want to commit suicide, the sell it.. no wait, I got it now! We need outsiders, but at the same time promotion from within! ok, no that doesn't work.. Wait!! I got it!! No colonialism, but help from LONDON!! That's it!!!
PH, you really really need to retire, I can't take this anymore.
You are killing me!!!!!!!!!
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I think Hannah can take quiet solace that STW disagrees. An endorsement from STW would be troubling.
Well put Miss Baker. You have summarized many of the problems CX has very well. Let's hope help arrives before she bleeds out.
Well put Miss Baker. You have summarized many of the problems CX has very well. Let's hope help arrives before she bleeds out.
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Sam Ting Wong,
You are coming across more and more as a complete plonker and ********. I did not write the above and I take my hat off to Hannah Baker for taking the time to write it. As you well know, I am close to Retirement, in 116 days as a matter of fact and whilst I have flown with many fine people over the last many years, you are not one of them, whoever you are. Why don't you show a few balls and cojones and come out and say who you are, I don't hide behind an alias like you do. I use my PPrune handle of Kotuku to log in, but I don't try to hide who I am here on PPrune, where I use my initials, as you did in referring to me and I don't hide on the AOA Forums. You are full of BS, so do us all a favour, please.
Cheers. PH
You are coming across more and more as a complete plonker and ********. I did not write the above and I take my hat off to Hannah Baker for taking the time to write it. As you well know, I am close to Retirement, in 116 days as a matter of fact and whilst I have flown with many fine people over the last many years, you are not one of them, whoever you are. Why don't you show a few balls and cojones and come out and say who you are, I don't hide behind an alias like you do. I use my PPrune handle of Kotuku to log in, but I don't try to hide who I am here on PPrune, where I use my initials, as you did in referring to me and I don't hide on the AOA Forums. You are full of BS, so do us all a favour, please.
Cheers. PH
Very good HB. STW thanks for repeating it all with your pathetic bleatings after each item. It really does show you as one of the incompetent mismanagement.
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STW....lay off the coffee...
BH raises good points and presented them in a well thought out post.
Your tone, on the other hand, was disrespectful and rude. Some introspection, please.
BH raises good points and presented them in a well thought out post.
Your tone, on the other hand, was disrespectful and rude. Some introspection, please.
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HB,
You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by simply posting the Haddon-Cave report on here.
But H-C made a grave error of judgement when he recommended HB's point 11. Hiring outside experts instead of from within. At that stage CX management circled the wagons and found the ever reliable shredder.
Sam Ting Wong,
Name one major structural change CX has made since the Haddon-Cave review?
Also, name one, any, outside senior manager CX has employed since the 2011 report was released?
There's a good reason CX is relying purely on inward looking CX managers to formulate and implement "time to win". They learnt from Haddon-Cave that if you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question.
You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble by simply posting the Haddon-Cave report on here.
But H-C made a grave error of judgement when he recommended HB's point 11. Hiring outside experts instead of from within. At that stage CX management circled the wagons and found the ever reliable shredder.
Sam Ting Wong,
Name one major structural change CX has made since the Haddon-Cave review?
Also, name one, any, outside senior manager CX has employed since the 2011 report was released?
There's a good reason CX is relying purely on inward looking CX managers to formulate and implement "time to win". They learnt from Haddon-Cave that if you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question.
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HB,
Excellent post, captured eloquently.
One thing you left off (perhaps a post script to point one), Chek Lap Kok is rapidly becoming a disaster. Halfway into a flight to HK, the ATIS scrawls out, "blah blah....expect 30mins holding", with reasonable wx. Once the frequent transient passengers realise they need to add 30-45 mins per HK transit, they'll seek alternatives. EK/QF from Aus, ETC.
I agree (unfortunately). This airline is rapidly seeking it's own demise. :-(
EDIT: STW: I previously hadn't appreciated the ridicule toward you......until now.
Excellent post, captured eloquently.
One thing you left off (perhaps a post script to point one), Chek Lap Kok is rapidly becoming a disaster. Halfway into a flight to HK, the ATIS scrawls out, "blah blah....expect 30mins holding", with reasonable wx. Once the frequent transient passengers realise they need to add 30-45 mins per HK transit, they'll seek alternatives. EK/QF from Aus, ETC.
I agree (unfortunately). This airline is rapidly seeking it's own demise. :-(
EDIT: STW: I previously hadn't appreciated the ridicule toward you......until now.
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…and if this Owens people person mentions "customer centric" ever again..I will personally ram a Time to win down his scrawny fukcnig throat…they have so totally lost the crews in ALL of this..marginalising the pilots pretty much all the way as far south as possible was just a gem..to recover any of that transport is nigh on impossible..and to wit..you can never bring an airline back from the brink without the good will of its pilots..Brannif..B'Cal..Pan Am… et al..