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KA Standard COS...My experience

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

KA Standard COS...My experience

Old 12th May 2017, 06:24
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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All those that left regret it ?
Thats so wishful thinking, and not true.
How about the guy in germany driving his GT3 , when before he was on the mid-levels bus?

How about the guy whos now B777 BA, you know he regrets leaving ?

How about the guy at Air Tanker , living in the beautiful home counties , having taken 30million from his house in cash. Hes regretting it too?

Point take we are all individuals, but dont tar everyone with your personal issues brush, and why you personall wanna ( have to) stay.
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Old 12th May 2017, 06:33
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Kahaha, read it again, sadly ALMOST everyone that left regret their decision.

Pilots left in droves already in the days of the old expat A-scale and later on the expat B-scale.

Similar arguments, much better elsewhere....

Many pilots loved it and stayed for 30+ years and could never get enough.
What has changed?
Nothing, we are all individuals.

Sadly, almost everyone that left regret their decision......!
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Old 12th May 2017, 09:58
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Almost all ... well thats as good as saying 95% lol

Anyway , lets put semantics aside.

I dont think any of the guys in Air China , living in Oz on tax free $US22000 a month have any regrets . How many there now , 10 or so?
And the one guy who did come back to KA lost his CAAC medical , but openly says he would still be there if his licence wasn't taken away.

Oh , how about the new A320 skipper who left last week to go to Virgin Atlantic . Bet he really regrets it.

The only poor b#%#tards who regret it were Sacked so had no choice. The guy in Fiji airways comes to mind .
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Old 12th May 2017, 10:39
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Kahaha,

How many of these guys were expat A-scalers?

The expat B-scalers.., I wish I could agree....

The pilots that loved it and stayed for 30+ years did extremely well.

Upgrade from a Boxster S in Hong Kong to a GT3 in Germany, WOW!!

Last edited by tsimbeit; 12th May 2017 at 16:58.
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Old 12th May 2017, 15:05
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A few more for the list ,
Theres the FO who went to Norwegian B787 a few months ago and an FO who went last week to Hong Kong Airlines. The A350 long haul awaits. Sounds terrible.

And then theres a bunch of early retirees . Better that than be carried off in a box.
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Old 12th May 2017, 18:04
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The elephant in the room for Dragon is the amount of guys who have unfortunately contracted some form of terminal illness. There are several guys who have being diagnosed with 3rd or 4 th stage cancer who were very active and previously healthy.

Wether or not its the job, the toxic environment or the cardiac inducing diet from working in China, no one knows.

Little do the company care. The level of cancer cover covered by the companies medical insurance is laughable. They give the guys their 120 days sick leave then stop their pay and cancel their employment pass . Nice caring and so thoughtful . Wannabes , please beware , this is the reality of 85 hours short haul in china .
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Old 12th May 2017, 18:43
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How about the pilots who have been flying for some 45 years, the last 30 years with KA/CX and still 100% fit.

Last edited by tsimbeit; 12th May 2017 at 20:15.
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Old 12th May 2017, 23:24
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Tsim. There is always going to be those individuals with cast iron genetics. They would probably survive nuclear war. However, for most human beings, the lifestyle and environment of this job can and will probably prove dangerous if not lethal. Then there is the appalling fact that the company can cut you off from medical care when you are at your sickest and most vulnerable. Are you trying to justify that?
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Old 12th May 2017, 23:53
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Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong
Gaisha,

as long as people like you accept the offered conditions, as long as people like you do not leave, things will not improve.

Since years now you and many more before you are taking part in an unwinnable game:

you want to convince OTHERS not to join, but you want to stay YOURSELF.

I do not buy your story.

Two years ago ALL the information was there. Everything.

You saw the money back then and you see the money today. You could go back any time, but for a $ sacrifice. So you convince yourself to stay just a bit longer, just a few hours more, just for the command...

And so the race to the bottom continues..
Exactly STW. Exactly. Welcome to the real world.
Please give this some consideration on the next occasion you're expounding the virtues of signing an inferior contract for short term $$$$ gain.
Perhaps you are losing your naivete?
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Old 13th May 2017, 02:12
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SWH completely wrong, a Network pilot that joined 2011 will bump any QF mainline pilot that joins QF post 2011, that's on domestic flights. International flights depends on rank and DOJ.

Kahaha, you forgot to mention the number of KA pilots that have actually died in the last 6 years
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Old 13th May 2017, 02:16
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Pilots have been signing inferior contracts for some 20 years, with the introduction of the B-scale.

Some of us will never make 60, flying or not flying, nothing new there.
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Old 13th May 2017, 16:22
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In the last 6 years , No idea

In the last 4 years , up to 7 have died , ( old guys ) 4 are currently undergoing treatment .

May god be with them .

Last edited by kahaha; 14th May 2017 at 08:37.
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Old 14th May 2017, 01:17
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At the DPA AGM it was reported that Dragonair pilots are the highest industry claimants for loss of license insurance. It's all random, no clusters evidently.

Our medical scheme could be partly to blame. If you have the DPA's advised extra cover, you get your choice of good medical care. I've seen guys go through the panel system ( which is far more limited than CX ) and end up with a lot of complications. That said, and it's a typical unrealised madness as we rapidly approach minimum crewing levels, our cheap medical scheme seems to be a great way of getting a lot of time off work as you join the queue for medical care. And anecdotally, incorrect diagnosis and treatments not uncommon with our back-street clinics.

The illness rates at KA also make a mockery of the CX pilot they sent over to deskill and drive inefficiencies into our operation with purposeless SOPs, who claimed fatigue is non-existent at KA. Sure, if you fly once a week with a gentleman's sign-on and with every effort made to avoid flying into China, your perspective of the KA operation is slewed a long way from the realities.

Perhaps the managers coming back on the line will help crewing levels a little but it seems we are training for attrition despite a training manager claiming all was A - OK a month back ! Maybe he will have a fresher perspective as a line driver. Advertised command vacancies don't seem to correspond with the odd congratulatory comment of a 4 Bar promotion on the weekly flyer. And if you add to that the resignations and broken bodies after about July and we are full steam ahead for a crewing crisis.

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 14th May 2017 at 11:27.
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Old 14th May 2017, 14:08
  #54 (permalink)  
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Can't wait for the managers to return to line flying. Or should i say ex-managers. That's probably why many captains are getting more standby's these days rather than 100% call out. When I got here I was staggered by the number of titles they had at the management level. The best was...Flying Training Manager..and Manager Flying training....I know its been posted in another thread...but we have as many managers as aircraft....hopefully with the ex managers flying the line from now on they will recognise the need to boost up the medical insurance as a result of operating into China all the time. Maybe we'll see an improvement in the future....but i'm not hopeful.
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Old 15th May 2017, 08:31
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Anotherday just to give some perspective, not all but some LCCs in Europe and US pay very well to be honest and after some time they give you good bases and very stable roster patterns...you usually fly 700 hrs a year however the single days can be very long. GA in Hong Kong pays way better than any airline job as well, just in case you insisted on not wanting to go back to a LCC.

I would still choose Long Haul on a beautiful modern bird out of Hong Kong if you ask me...but just to say that valid options are there for you and your family, no need to stick it and complain if you don't like it.
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Old 16th May 2017, 02:15
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Anotherday. What is your problem? I have just read your posts on the different threads. You like to agitate, are incredibly negative and seem to enjoy trying to depress and demoralise the pilot group. Oh, just like our management. Makes one wonder....
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Old 16th May 2017, 03:00
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I doubt he's agitating anyone here from KA Trafalgar, as his comments seem irrelevant to KA issues. Can't you guys drag him back onto your own threads and have him focus on his own contract compliance campaign?

Guys can't leave? Our guys are leaving and as I mentioned they are getting sick too. Also, despite so much of our operation being low cost and our competitors being low cost, our training models haven't the ability to adapt to commercial necessities nor the real world. Pilots are not just failing commands they are not putting their hands up- often capable pilots too who have the credentials but fear they will match up with a bad trainer and be unaccountably scrubbed. I don't know how institutions can lose a hearts and minds campaign with such a major professional advancement. Actually, I do know why.

None of these factors are being managed and it is only going to get worse as CX integrates management with little awareness of our operation- send another CX exchange pilot over but this time fly our real operation and see the problems !

I actually don't want my colleagues to leave. If my colleagues leave I just work harder. I won't get a payrise from attrition at this stage and it is only if Local Contract Captains leave in increasing numbers that much will happen. Unlike Anotherday I'm not in contract compliance. If I were, our operation would be devastated without our goodwill. KA pilots too , have a habit of when being told where the door is, of making for that exit.

There is nothing relevant in Anotherdays comments

Last edited by Gnadenburg; 16th May 2017 at 04:05.
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Old 21st May 2017, 22:18
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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TSIMBEIT
To say ALMOST all regret leaving - don't need to be a scientist to realise the only way to quantify this is to do a survey. Hard facts.


That's survey will say that I left KA and have zero regrets. Back in home country, clean air, food I can trust is not injected, room for kids to run and play etc etc. Don't get me wrong - I think HK is fabulous, but it does have problems.


Interested to read a bunch of pilots have died - can anyone shed light. Apart from the very sad loss of Vince, I haven't heard of others.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 21:51
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Anotherday. Where is your management office located after the carnage yesterday. I imagine you were probably promoted.....corner office?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 03:25
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Originally Posted by Anotherday
Saying, as some on here do, that you left and went home to your country of origin with a bucket of cash that you made from working at KA. That's not really the same as leaving because you don't like the place. If that was the case then you should never have joined in the first place.
KA would need 100 pilots a year to leave, that's never going to happen, the money's too good for 99.9999999% of you.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Guy's I know left because they were fed up with KA or Hong Kong or the operation or all of those. Many didn't leave super wealthy and they knew what they were giving up.

Yes, the grass is greener, and over a beer there will of course be the odd regret but guess what? How quickly they forget! And knowing these guys, they would not have stomached further deterioration in the job nor especially the club mentality that's probably about to get smashed by CX.
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