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As far as I know it's the business class section that makes the money. Business travellers want choice of departure times.
Economy (leisure) travellers don't want to board a 7 hour flight at 3pm. They want a 10am departure because they want to get there, check in and go and eat etc. Business pax want to arrive at 10am not depart. You want to operate bigger aircraft with fewer slots you have to alienate either the economy pax or business pax. I know which ones I want to keep.
Economy (leisure) travellers don't want to board a 7 hour flight at 3pm. They want a 10am departure because they want to get there, check in and go and eat etc. Business pax want to arrive at 10am not depart. You want to operate bigger aircraft with fewer slots you have to alienate either the economy pax or business pax. I know which ones I want to keep.
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If the price is low enough, you'll bring out the bottom feeders. An empty seat is zero revenue, but if you want to fill the plane, price it very low and you'll find enough people to fill the plane. Hence, keep a business friendly schedule, lower prices in the back to fill the plane.
In a 3 class cabin, if business and first are full. You could pretty much have nobody in economy and the flight will still make a little money.
You could charge 50% on top of the usual economy class seat but if business and first is empty you will be taking off with a big loss. Just putting people on seats is great if you are a low cost single class carrier. For established full service carriers it's not the right strategy.
Even some locos now have a "premium" cabin.
You could charge 50% on top of the usual economy class seat but if business and first is empty you will be taking off with a big loss. Just putting people on seats is great if you are a low cost single class carrier. For established full service carriers it's not the right strategy.
Even some locos now have a "premium" cabin.
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It's not smart to propose that any airline would turn it's back on $200 to $300K per flight (income from economy).
Do the math. Flight load factors need to be north of 90% if any airline wants to make a few bucks. No one can afford to fly an empty cattle class.
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Pilotchute,
I think you should get a job in the revenue management department.
Reading your post I got a great idea.
Why not sell the business and first class seats really cheaply, that why you fill them up no problem and by your logic all will be well as the price you sell them at does not seem to be a consideration.
Take it to the next level, buy a couple of A380s and just put first class seats in them ....... we'll be swimming in it soon ........
Heard of yield before ?
I think you should get a job in the revenue management department.
Reading your post I got a great idea.
Why not sell the business and first class seats really cheaply, that why you fill them up no problem and by your logic all will be well as the price you sell them at does not seem to be a consideration.
Take it to the next level, buy a couple of A380s and just put first class seats in them ....... we'll be swimming in it soon ........
Heard of yield before ?
Yes I have heard of yield. What you seem to forget is business and first class tickets are usually paid for by non price sensitive customers. Usually corporations (that's why its called business) and rather well off people.
Ever seen a $99 fare in business? No and that's why your argument is a little off.
Underpants, I can't say for sure but I would say that a full business and first class cabin would yield more than all off economy?
The point being though is I would say any airline with premium cabins would much prefer to fly schedules that appeal to the business travellers as full biz and first cabin with only half of economy fIlled would be a much better yield than having a full economy cabin with nobody up the front.
Ever seen a $99 fare in business? No and that's why your argument is a little off.
Underpants, I can't say for sure but I would say that a full business and first class cabin would yield more than all off economy?
The point being though is I would say any airline with premium cabins would much prefer to fly schedules that appeal to the business travellers as full biz and first cabin with only half of economy fIlled would be a much better yield than having a full economy cabin with nobody up the front.
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Back to the subject at hand...
There is NO pilot shortage...there is a shortage of well paying pilot positions with benefits sufficient to encourage potential pilots to apply.
There is NO pilot shortage...there is a shortage of well paying pilot positions with benefits sufficient to encourage potential pilots to apply.
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Well, a few numbers. The USA alone will need upwards of 100,000 new pilots in the next 10 years. Asia-Pacific, about 230,000. Both those numbers based on current growth/retirement estimates. For what it's worth, past estimates have been constantly adjusted in an upwards direction. So, CX can continue their head-in-the-sand attitude towards the simple mathematical fact of a growing crewing crisis, or they can finally acknowledge that finding, keeping and benefiting from skilled, well paid pilots is probably a better idea than their current policy of degrading, demoralising and ultimately losing the pilots they currently employ. I am holding my breath. 
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Interesting factoid: the US airline industry is quietly lobbying the US Gov to allow the employment of foreign pilots, as there is no where near enough pilots available domestically to cater to the growing demand for both growth and retirement requirements. Would love to be a fly on the wall of CX management offices the day that policy is approved. Of course, they will be busy producing all the 'Confirmation of Employment and Experience' letters that our pilots will be requesting.
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Paul,
It's time for you to retire. Take all of your money (I assume you have some since you've been working here for nearly 30 years) and go off and enjoy the last few years of your life!! Take a break from the internet. We ALL need it.
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It's time for you to retire. Take all of your money (I assume you have some since you've been working here for nearly 30 years) and go off and enjoy the last few years of your life!! Take a break from the internet. We ALL need it.
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Not disputing your comment but I'd like to see the information upon which you know the lobbying is taking place. A few regionals here are taking Aussies under the E-3 visa applicable only to Aussies (as discussed elsewhere). IIUC, this visa class was in place long ago and merely used lately to get a few expats into the regional segment of the US airline biz...and probably isn't the mechanism to which you refer. I'd love to see the source of your information.