Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

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Old 6th Apr 2017, 03:04
  #41 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by JayTee777300
FLYINCOLO, You seem keen a and capable guy... In answer to your questions just beware...
- you will be assigned a fleet, there is no bidding at CX.
- once assigned you will likely never leave that fleet UNLESS it suits Cathay to do so. Your desires and lifestyle are not considered. Once again, there is NO bidding at CX.
- even as you upgrade you will be assigned a fleet that is convenient to them to upgrade on. Your seniority means nothing and you will not be allowed to simply defer upgrade to pick a fleet of your choosing (ie. even if you do defer, you will still be assigned the same fleet... Mostly just to teach you a lesson.)
- seat locked? For as long as it suits them.

Note: some fleets have significantly worse lifestyles than others. Hope you don't get one of those on day 1, or that is it. Game over. In the DFO's words 'we don't discriminate on fleet pay hence we can put you on any fleet that suits us - we are not required to obey seniority'... This attitude unfortunately does not take into account lifestyle/roster and/or overtime though.

Additional info: if CX are still spruiking the "you will have a base in 5 years" line be cautious... I have recently flown with SO's that were STILL being told that in their interviews a couple of years ago (as was I 10+ years ago)... Despite the fact there has been no meaningful movement on bases in the last 9 years. When/if the bases did move there will be a lot of pent up demand... And you will be at the very bottom. At CX you can't downgrade to take a base meaning if you have upgraded to Capt you may never get a base (ie. can't downgrade to fill an FO slot).

This info it's just so you know... coming to CX in HK is a long term commitment. It is unlikely you will be taking any base before 7+ years.

It is a very different work place to the USA, Europe or Australia. CX as an employer are pretty much allowed to do what they want, picking or choosing to honor the parts of your contact that suit them.

Good luck with it.
Thank you for your useful insight JayTee. I really appreciate the information
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 12:24
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Gentlemen, does anyone know the structure of the ASPEQ ICAO exam(Cathay Pacific)? Where can I find this information? And who is good at preparing it? Thanks a lot!
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 18:20
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Originally Posted by mrfox
A RJ puke slinging mud about cheap labour - how ironic.
Nothing wrong with flying RJ, most small airports cant take bigger jets. RJ flying is real and hard.

A tw@t like you would not know real work if it hit you in the face. An SO is the epitome of cheap labour, thats not slinging mud but a fact.

I guarentee you a lot of those RJ pukes as you so politely call them will have far superior flying skills and abilities to you.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 19:33
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Originally Posted by Luggage
Nothing wrong with flying RJ, most small airports cant take bigger jets. RJ flying is real and hard.

A tw@t like you would not know real work if it hit you in the face. An SO is the epitome of cheap labour, thats not slinging mud but a fact.

I guarentee you a lot of those RJ pukes as you so politely call them will have far superior flying skills and abilities to you.
Very true, Luggage. However, RJ pilots, in general, are doing the same thing SOs are doing. Working cheap, trying to build good time, all in hopes of better things in the future. The upside for RJ pilots is that they can choose from a plethora of hiring airlines. Not so for SOs, they are locked in at CX for at least 5 years before they get any relevant experience. By then, the RJ pilot is long since a captain but still doesn't have a seniority number anywhere. The SO has a seniority number at CX, which used to be worth something. Now? I'm starting to wonder...
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 21:42
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Originally Posted by cxorcist
Very true, Luggage. However, RJ pilots, in general, are doing the same thing SOs are doing. Working cheap, trying to build good time, all in hopes of better things in the future. The upside for RJ pilots is that they can choose from a plethora of hiring airlines. Not so for SOs, they are locked in at CX for at least 5 years before they get any relevant experience. By then, the RJ pilot is long since a captain but still doesn't have a seniority number anywhere. The SO has a seniority number at CX, which used to be worth something. Now? I'm starting to wonder...
Well I sort of agree with you on the money side but with a different outlook. An RJ pilot on an ERJ175 does the EXACT same job as an A320/330 pilot but for less money flying into airports a 320 cant always go however RJ pilots also fly in and out of major airports like ORD, DFW, LAX, LGA, DCA etc.

Their flight time and experience is not worth anything less than a 737/747 pilots time and have certainly earned their stripes but for less money. The options available to them should be better than an SO, they do a real world flying job and dont buy their way into jobs like European pilots do with P2F and buying 500 on type (no time for those losers either).

An SO could have become an RJ pilot and got real first hand left and right seat experience on a twin jet with an MTOW of 40 tons plus, just as good as a 320 or 737. However they chose to become an SO doing nothing and gaining nothing but sitting in a jumpseat or RHS at FL370 over the Pacific...MONITORING!!

I have experience flying RJ and A320 so I know both worlds and RJ guys are some of the best pilots I have ever come accross. The workload is incredible and they get some of the best hands on experience I have ever seen.
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 21:58
  #46 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Luggage
An RJ pilot on an ERJ175 does the EXACT same job as an A320/330 pilot but for less money
Their flight time and experience is not worth anything less than a 737/747 pilots time and have certainly earned their stripes but for less money.
So you felt your job was worth more, but you took the low paying offer anyway.
I'm guessing because it was the best opportunity available.
Hi kettle!
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Old 13th Apr 2017, 22:54
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Originally Posted by mrfox
So you felt your job was worth more, but you took the low paying offer anyway.
I'm guessing because it was the best opportunity available.
Hi kettle!
No I took an RJ job because I moved to the US, have interviews set up now for 320 and 747/767 jobs as well as an offer to interview from CX and even HKA but not interested in the problems in HK anymore.

Thats the way it is in the US, seniority is everything, you dont get to buy your way into a shiny AA A320 because you want to.

I have no regrets with my career neither have I undercut anybody....unlike some!!
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 06:02
  #48 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Luggage
Thats the way it is in the US, seniority is everything,
So seniority is everything to you, except when it comes to DEFO over SO?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 07:36
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Every SO signed a contract, in that contract DEFO is allowed. If someone joins as a DEFO they are junior in seniority to an SO who joined a day before them.

It amazes me how people can get upset when CX complies with the contract YOU signed.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 09:24
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An RJ is a very small jet, the SO will probably know a lot more than you . If this is the attitude you might as well not join
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 10:29
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I have had the pleasure of flying with some very talented young (and old) SOs from all backgrounds and experience levels. The smart ones do a grand job and soak up the experience of watching the operation when not in the seat. This is the major part of the transition from their previous life to 'the Cathay Way'. The ability to follow the FDs and not crash in the last 200' is easily taught in the first few sectors. Untraining your (luggage) 'this is not the way we did it on RJs blah' is the difficult part... not that I would be a trainer in Cathay!
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 11:29
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Originally Posted by borntofly737
Hello!

I was wondering if anybody had information on the DEFO interview, or will be attending in May.

Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Same here!
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 12:49
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Luggage must be an amazing pilot because he flew the RJ. Who here would like to be in a cockpit with him though?
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:02
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Seniority

Originally Posted by mrfox
So seniority is everything to you, except when it comes to DEFO over SO?
No numbskull, Im just telling you how it works in the US.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:04
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pfvspnf
An RJ is a very small jet, the SO will probably know a lot more than you . If this is the attitude you might as well not join
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! What utter rubbish... Im a 777 pilot, my jets bigger than an A320/E175 so I must be a better pilot...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Tool of the day comment!!
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:11
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Originally Posted by GICASI2
I have had the pleasure of flying with some very talented young (and old) SOs from all backgrounds and experience levels. The smart ones do a grand job and soak up the experience of watching the operation when not in the seat. This is the major part of the transition from their previous life to 'the Cathay Way'. The ability to follow the FDs and not crash in the last 200' is easily taught in the first few sectors. Untraining your (luggage) 'this is not the way we did it on RJs blah' is the difficult part... not that I would be a trainer in Cathay!
What!!!An RJ pilot needs to be retaught howto land....what utter CR@P!!!

Get off your high horse, Im a 777 pilot....I fly a bigger jet so I must be better.

Im pretty sure the 13000 hour RJ Captains and FO's I have flown with will make the transition just fine.

Those Asiana pilots on their 777 did a bang up job landing in SFO, Guess they followed your well taught fly the FD to the ground theory as well...Jeez!!

Heres a thought, you can become an SO and monitor and learn as you put it or actually sit in the right hand seat of a real jet and fly, take off, land, fly an arrival/approach...gee what a novel idea.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:18
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Originally Posted by SkewedFlaps
Luggage must be an amazing pilot because he flew the RJ. Who here would like to be in a cockpit with him though?
No I have only flown twin piston/turbo prop, A320 and E175, never a big bird like a 777 so I must be a rank amatuer still and not up to your lofty standards.

I guess those 14 flight sectors over 4 days to all different airport, long and short runways, good and bad weather, busiest airports in the world (DFW/ATL/ORD), inflight emergencies as well as international in North/South America has just been a complete waste of time...

I patiently wait to be taken under the wing of a real pilot such as a 777 CX guy...that will show me!!
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:28
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Yup you're a sky God because you have bumd around in a regional jet.

Let's see you operate in the typhoon season at VHHH or go into PEK

Also do you know that SOs are in the sim being checked very very often , there are things in the jump seat that nobody else sees, it never gets mentioned but they have saved the day many times.

What bothers me the most is your poor attitude,I don't think you'll last in the region . If this is the quality that Cx is desperate for I pity the companies future. Captains get ready for some baby sitting !
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:30
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I have to agree with Luggage on most of this. CX is a toxic Petri dish when it comes to flying skills. This rears its ugly head time and again when we are asked to fly a visual approach with nothing more than a PAPI, or God forbid, the CRI VOR 13L without full RNP AR automation.

Face it colleagues, CX pilots' hand flying skills suck. Turning off the flight directors and A/T only happens above 1000' once every blue moon. I personally try to do it more often, but it usually gets the PM very nervous even after having briefed it and I hardly ever see that from others.

The 3:1 rule seems lost on most of our younger pilots. Many have no clue what energy state / altitude they should be at for given distances. They're just relying on the VNAV path. Did they ever learn it, or have they just forgotten or become too task saturated for it?

Luggage is right. We aren't very good, and certainly not proportional to the egos we read on here. Most of us could use some "regional" time to sharpen up, and especially our lesser experienced colleagues who never flew it in the first place.
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Old 14th Apr 2017, 15:34
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Originally Posted by pfvspnf
Yup you're a sky God because you have bumd around in a regional jet.

Let's see you operate in the typhoon season at VHHH or go into PEK

Also do you know that SOs are in the sim being checked very very often , there are things in the jump seat that nobody else sees, it never gets mentioned but they have saved the day many times.

What bothers me the most is your poor attitude,I don't think you'll last in the region . If this is the quality that Cx is desperate for I pity the companies future. Captains get ready for some baby sitting !
BWAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Baby sitting...yeah all right, calm down mate!

Typhoon season...hahahahaha, yeah we have no hurricanes or tornados, severe thunderstorms etc in the US...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

What a stupid comment!!
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