Union Membership
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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it's not the AOA's duty to do something about it if he isn't a member in good standing ferchrissakes.
if somebody f@cks up, twice as it would appear, and is a non member then f@ck em
Just curious though, and you think it would be ok to defend a member who f@cks up twice? Or should the AoA rewrite the rules to state three strikes and no assistance.
Individuals who took training jobs, or worked on g days prior to the ban were doing what they were entitled to do; morally questionable perhaps, however in the absence of a directive from the membership their right.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
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Dragon69,
It's his right to apply, not to join. It's the current members right to reject any application as they see fit. He wouldn't be the first applicant to be denied membership.
The concerned individual has a history of commenting on why he's not a member. And his concerns are not unreasonable. In fact, they're much the same concerns that many lifetime AOA members also have. However, we've decided that the pro's still outweigh the con's. This persons scales were weighted differently and that's a decision he'll have to live with. What sort of precedent would this send? Run off the end of a runway and the last item on the evacuation checklist is "submit AOA application". "Check".
At the very least the GC should interview him and make a determination if he's really seen the light or it's just a marriage of convenience.
That's our right Dragon. Non-members don't have rights.
It's his right to apply, not to join. It's the current members right to reject any application as they see fit. He wouldn't be the first applicant to be denied membership.
The concerned individual has a history of commenting on why he's not a member. And his concerns are not unreasonable. In fact, they're much the same concerns that many lifetime AOA members also have. However, we've decided that the pro's still outweigh the con's. This persons scales were weighted differently and that's a decision he'll have to live with. What sort of precedent would this send? Run off the end of a runway and the last item on the evacuation checklist is "submit AOA application". "Check".
At the very least the GC should interview him and make a determination if he's really seen the light or it's just a marriage of convenience.
That's our right Dragon. Non-members don't have rights.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Asia
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What exactly did this guy do to end up in this situation? If he has really screwed the pooch, there isn't much the AOA can do for him except ensure the D&G procedure is correctly followed.
Member or not, the company is always looking for people to chop to keep the rest of the troops ducking for cover. Especially when they can replace a pilot on expat terms with a cheap replacement.
Member or not, the company is always looking for people to chop to keep the rest of the troops ducking for cover. Especially when they can replace a pilot on expat terms with a cheap replacement.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Australia
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As said above, AOA coverage should begin the day the application is approved. No back dating an incident.
GC screw up = yes
Happen again = no
He probably wants his application to be rejected, he's got what he came for.
GC screw up = yes
Happen again = no
He probably wants his application to be rejected, he's got what he came for.
And that Avin... is it in a nutshell.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Another day, you are one of the most pro company posters that I know of. I'm actually surprised you are even in the union. So typical though. Too scared to pick a fight with the company, much easier to pick on one harmless individual isn't?
Join Date: Jan 2008
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why don't we use this terrible situation as an opportunity to show all and sundry the exact reasons why they should join.
How about the AOA taking legal action against him? Is there potentially a case of fraud here in that there was a deception by requesting and utilising member services whilst failing to disclose membership status, or lack of membership???
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: the land of chocolate
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What's the point of membership if they help everyone?
What would be the incentive to join!
Seriously thinking about leaving if this is not addressed.
The silence is deafening over at the forums, everyone too afraid to talk about it...
What would be the incentive to join!
Seriously thinking about leaving if this is not addressed.
The silence is deafening over at the forums, everyone too afraid to talk about it...
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Helena Island
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[QUOTE] "He's already had the help; and more fool us. A complete disincentive to paying union dues." [QUOTE]
Did pilots accept positions here during the hiring ban, only to be allowed to join later?
Or those that have previously scabbed in U.S airlines, have been accepted as members...
Who fooled who?
Dragon69 said it best, "If this individual is being unjustly treated by the company, it is the AoAs duty to do something about it. What can happen to him can eventually happen to anyone, including a 3 months AoA member".
I reiterate my previous post, #61, "Before we allow tempers to flare, how about we possibly obtain and consider all the facts rather than go by speculation."
Did pilots accept positions here during the hiring ban, only to be allowed to join later?
Or those that have previously scabbed in U.S airlines, have been accepted as members...
Who fooled who?
Dragon69 said it best, "If this individual is being unjustly treated by the company, it is the AoAs duty to do something about it. What can happen to him can eventually happen to anyone, including a 3 months AoA member".
I reiterate my previous post, #61, "Before we allow tempers to flare, how about we possibly obtain and consider all the facts rather than go by speculation."
Join Date: May 2009
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I reiterate my previous post, #61, "Before we allow tempers to flare, how about we possibly obtain and consider all the facts rather than go by speculation."
Last edited by betpump5; 23rd Feb 2017 at 21:01.
Join Date: Aug 2015
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This is exactly why motor insurance policies are date and time stamped . Otherwise why bother to insure your car Wait until you have an accident then apply for insurance , saving you from all those pesky premiums throughout the years that you drive and don't have an accident .
So should this individual be allowed to join . Absolutely !! BUT. there should be no input to the company on his behalf by the AOA relating to this issue either immediately or any time in the future .
So should this individual be allowed to join . Absolutely !! BUT. there should be no input to the company on his behalf by the AOA relating to this issue either immediately or any time in the future .
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Bollocks, ex-wing! And if you had ever served on the GC, you would exactly how these things happen, i.e. you are the "duty officer" and some guy calls you out of the blue and presents himself as a member asking for advice. He seems friendly and seems to know the drill. As duty officer you can never imagine that someone would have the gall to act so fraudulently. So you start off helping him. What happens after that, well that's going to be looked at, isn't it?
Stick to your pro-company propaganda.
Stick to your pro-company propaganda.
Hey, I've just bought a new car. After this, I won't bother insuring it until after I have an accident. Then they'll pay up...won't they?
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sydney
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He should not be allowed
Recently a member of the GC took a personal phone call from a non-member pilot who was involved in an operational matter. This was not an official 'hotline' call, however the GC Member was asked for assistance. Under the assumption the pilot was a Member, that assistance was given. It was only after providing this assistance did this pilot admit that he was in fact not a Member.
We do not hold the GC Member involved accountable for his actions - he was doing what he thought was in the best interest of the pilot. However we are disappointed that a non-member pilot would actually reach out and request AOA assistance in such circumstances.
We are looking at changing our internal procedures, like requiring Members to identify themselves by their AOA ID number prior to initiating any assistance, but that does not correct what has happened. This pilot concerned has subsequently applied to join the HKAOA which either can be considered a victory for the HKAOA, or a devaluation of the 'value' of Membership. This issue is currently being debated at the GC who will ultimately decide on the application. We encourage all Members to write to the GC with opinions either way as so to help stimulate this conversation.
This is an utter disgrace
We do not hold the GC Member involved accountable for his actions - he was doing what he thought was in the best interest of the pilot. However we are disappointed that a non-member pilot would actually reach out and request AOA assistance in such circumstances.
We are looking at changing our internal procedures, like requiring Members to identify themselves by their AOA ID number prior to initiating any assistance, but that does not correct what has happened. This pilot concerned has subsequently applied to join the HKAOA which either can be considered a victory for the HKAOA, or a devaluation of the 'value' of Membership. This issue is currently being debated at the GC who will ultimately decide on the application. We encourage all Members to write to the GC with opinions either way as so to help stimulate this conversation.
This is an utter disgrace
Join Date: Apr 2002
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What's really important in the latest update is the 'head in the sand 'position this current President and GC is taking towards a very well pointed out ' payrise negotiations ' that our union doesn't want to know about and rightfully pointed out by our incumbent pres, you get what you voted for folks .
And yet here we all are bickering about a completely unimportant trivial aspect of union management . Why not more outrage about the overdue pay talks.... f##% me
And yet here we all are bickering about a completely unimportant trivial aspect of union management . Why not more outrage about the overdue pay talks.... f##% me
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Payrise negotiations: important.
Union member issue: also important. If you can avoid paying dues for almost 20 years, then get the same assistance as if you've always been a member, I think the key fundamental regarding membership has been killed off. I suggest that this is actually more important than the ongoing industrial issues, and is a stab at the very heart of the AOA. No to membership, unless he backpays about 20yrs worth of dues.
Union member issue: also important. If you can avoid paying dues for almost 20 years, then get the same assistance as if you've always been a member, I think the key fundamental regarding membership has been killed off. I suggest that this is actually more important than the ongoing industrial issues, and is a stab at the very heart of the AOA. No to membership, unless he backpays about 20yrs worth of dues.