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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sydney
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He should not be allowed
I have had the displeasure of flying with this capt a few times. Whilst yes, he's a very nice person, he made it abundantly clear to me and the others in the cockpit that he wasn't part of the AOA because he 1) thought they were toothless 2) thought it was a waste of money 3) stated that he will get the new fought for contract without putting his neck on the line.
Furthermore, he made it known that he applied a few times for training whilst the training ban was on. He said he didn't get in the first time, but knew they were desperate and reapplied under the assumption that he'll get in due to the lack of applicants. He did not however.
This guy, as nice as he is, is a snake and has had no issue undermining and under cutting his fellow pilots for his own personal gain.
I say tell him to stay in LV and fight his own battles. He's not willing to help us, we should not be willing to bail him out now he's up sh*t creek without a paddle.
Furthermore, he made it known that he applied a few times for training whilst the training ban was on. He said he didn't get in the first time, but knew they were desperate and reapplied under the assumption that he'll get in due to the lack of applicants. He did not however.
This guy, as nice as he is, is a snake and has had no issue undermining and under cutting his fellow pilots for his own personal gain.
I say tell him to stay in LV and fight his own battles. He's not willing to help us, we should not be willing to bail him out now he's up sh*t creek without a paddle.
Re the NZ members. They have to sign Cos 08 to go on the Perth base and all
the company has to do is to refuse it, surely. ? That was the whole point of the original court case was it not ?
the company has to do is to refuse it, surely. ? That was the whole point of the original court case was it not ?
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: HK
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Fake News Alert.
I know this is rumour network, but Anotherday is spouting mis-information about the NZ Age Discrimination case that is potentially damaging to the HKAOA.
1. The litigants in the NZ case have not taken Perth bases. Even if they did;
a. Under their COS it can be argued they are entitled to do so. They are exercising the same rights as all of us.
b. They are only able to bid for the Perth base because the HKAOA's actions delayed their forced retirements. Would that not be a success for the HKAOA?
2. The case has yet to be decided. It is going to final appeal. Whilst the case proceeds the two litigants remain employed. Are the HKAOA's objectives not being achieved?
3. The costs outlined by Anotherday are grossly over-inflated. I am not going to discuss actual numbers, but to say the costs are 10 times over-stated would not be far from the truth. That said, no matter what the cost, the HKAOA will take all measures to defend its Members, particularly when some form of discrimination is involved. As a modern-thinking, progressive organization, the HKAOA will use all means at its disposable to oppose discrimination - all Members should be proud of that fact.
I have come on this forum because it is important that non-members and the Company understand the HKAOA's position and mischievous misinformation should not be allowed to pervert debate.
Rod F
Chairman 2014-16
I know this is rumour network, but Anotherday is spouting mis-information about the NZ Age Discrimination case that is potentially damaging to the HKAOA.
1. The litigants in the NZ case have not taken Perth bases. Even if they did;
a. Under their COS it can be argued they are entitled to do so. They are exercising the same rights as all of us.
b. They are only able to bid for the Perth base because the HKAOA's actions delayed their forced retirements. Would that not be a success for the HKAOA?
2. The case has yet to be decided. It is going to final appeal. Whilst the case proceeds the two litigants remain employed. Are the HKAOA's objectives not being achieved?
3. The costs outlined by Anotherday are grossly over-inflated. I am not going to discuss actual numbers, but to say the costs are 10 times over-stated would not be far from the truth. That said, no matter what the cost, the HKAOA will take all measures to defend its Members, particularly when some form of discrimination is involved. As a modern-thinking, progressive organization, the HKAOA will use all means at its disposable to oppose discrimination - all Members should be proud of that fact.
I have come on this forum because it is important that non-members and the Company understand the HKAOA's position and mischievous misinformation should not be allowed to pervert debate.
Rod F
Chairman 2014-16
Care to elaborate on said creek sans paddle ?
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: St Helena Island
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I've flown with the said individual on many occasion, and found him to be a gentleman. Don't know where some you get your animosity towards him. Instead of vilifying him, how about finding out the facts first? Oh, that's right, just like our management style, he's guilty till proven innocent.
Comedian, I can attest that he only applied once and that was before the training ban. Ever since the ban was enforced, he hasn't reapplied nor is he interested in doing so again. He and I had conversations regarding why he wasn't a member, and I understood his reason (didn't agree nor disagreed - I listened). I don't recall him ever speaking ill of the AOA, membership, or anything else even remotely close to what you've stated. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, though. Just my two cents, though.
Comedian, I can attest that he only applied once and that was before the training ban. Ever since the ban was enforced, he hasn't reapplied nor is he interested in doing so again. He and I had conversations regarding why he wasn't a member, and I understood his reason (didn't agree nor disagreed - I listened). I don't recall him ever speaking ill of the AOA, membership, or anything else even remotely close to what you've stated. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, though. Just my two cents, though.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I'm sure he'll quit the union as soon as his little problem, whatever it is, is fixed...
He can then 'give back' by becoming a trainer.
Has anyone called in with an objection yet?
He can then 'give back' by becoming a trainer.
Has anyone called in with an objection yet?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Okay, what are we talking here?
One of the ' dodgy diversions' last month or something worse?
Thought they had been dealt with. Tea and bikkies,a quick review of the FCOM and a sim session and off you go.
Not correct?
One of the ' dodgy diversions' last month or something worse?
Thought they had been dealt with. Tea and bikkies,a quick review of the FCOM and a sim session and off you go.
Not correct?
Most unions ( worthy of the name ) have a probationary period post joining to prevent this sort of insurance "tourism". Balpa ( from memory ) around 6 months, could be a year.
Two diversions ? Niiice. Needs his tech knowledge re-appraising then.
Two diversions ? Niiice. Needs his tech knowledge re-appraising then.
Join Date: Feb 2017
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There were two diversions that were more down to a lack of systems knowledge; not the said individual involved in two diversions.
Why ruin a good rumour when the facts aren't all obtained first, right?
Why ruin a good rumour when the facts aren't all obtained first, right?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
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I think we should help him.
Choosing to resign from, or not be a member of, a union, is a moral choice.
OK, now we all know there are deficiencies in this guy's character. So be it.
By being tossers we're all lowering ourselves.
We should take the high road and do the right thing.
That way, there will be no doubt as to who the w@nkers are.
Flame away.
Choosing to resign from, or not be a member of, a union, is a moral choice.
OK, now we all know there are deficiencies in this guy's character. So be it.
By being tossers we're all lowering ourselves.
We should take the high road and do the right thing.
That way, there will be no doubt as to who the w@nkers are.
Flame away.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I think this is a more of the lines of seeing the true colors of the company and what they really care of an employee, hell be a member for awhile is my guess after seeing this.
As much as I don't like it he's within his rights not to join the AOA in the past, many haven't......goodness some have resigned
This should be used as a living example WHY we should all be in the AOA.......Showing we are a compassionate bunch of professionals able to rise above petty disagreements and grow as a group.
Anyway, he is a decent fella and worthy of the assistance of his colleagues.
So stop all this bs attacking and STFU.
This should be used as a living example WHY we should all be in the AOA.......Showing we are a compassionate bunch of professionals able to rise above petty disagreements and grow as a group.
Anyway, he is a decent fella and worthy of the assistance of his colleagues.
So stop all this bs attacking and STFU.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Further;
Would his membership still be welcome if it were to become know the following:
He called a GC member for help.
The GC member called other members and provided assistance.
The AOA assembled at the company, and helped in dealings with company.
The entire time the prospective member FAILED to disclose his NON-member status. While graciously accepting the help.
Only after did it come to light that he was not a member.
He had the CO-JONES to ask for help and not disclose that he was not a member.
The AOA failed in it's assumption that a PILOT calling it's hotline was automatically a member..
Do we want that kind of Member?
Would his membership still be welcome if it were to become know the following:
He called a GC member for help.
The GC member called other members and provided assistance.
The AOA assembled at the company, and helped in dealings with company.
The entire time the prospective member FAILED to disclose his NON-member status. While graciously accepting the help.
Only after did it come to light that he was not a member.
He had the CO-JONES to ask for help and not disclose that he was not a member.
The AOA failed in it's assumption that a PILOT calling it's hotline was automatically a member..
Do we want that kind of Member?
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I have to say that if that is true, I am cringing at the amateurism of the AOA by not checking someone's status, what else is going by the wayside?
I can almost not believe this, as it would be so incredibly childish for said individual to pull a stunt like that.
Then again, people do strange things when backed into corner.
I can almost not believe this, as it would be so incredibly childish for said individual to pull a stunt like that.
Then again, people do strange things when backed into corner.
Well this individual has never lacked cojones. IF he has done as suggested and used the aoa in such a cavalier fashion then he should be black balled. Decency or not. Otherwise what's the point of paying our dues ? Think I'll resign tomorrow, make a fairly major expensive stuff up, and then call on the aoa for help ? Save me a fortune.
If he is allowed in he should be charged back dues, and they should be donated to the Sunnyside Club or some other deserving charity.
Pretty sure it's against ALPA rules, or certainly the intent of ALPA rules, for that matter
If he is allowed in he should be charged back dues, and they should be donated to the Sunnyside Club or some other deserving charity.
Pretty sure it's against ALPA rules, or certainly the intent of ALPA rules, for that matter
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The AOA needs to take the high road and accept him.
Yes, I agree it would have been much better if he were already a member and it's poor form on his part that he's joining only now when it suits him. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
But the AOA as a whole is above all of this. We should show some compassion to one of our own, even if we don't agree with what he did. Any one of us could be in his situation with the Company on the war path these days. Look at the fleet office. Protecting their boys from the pressures above? I don't think so... they're looking for the next person to be thrown under the bus... if that isn't something to rally and solidify the AOA's membership, I don't know what is.
Yes, I agree it would have been much better if he were already a member and it's poor form on his part that he's joining only now when it suits him. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
But the AOA as a whole is above all of this. We should show some compassion to one of our own, even if we don't agree with what he did. Any one of us could be in his situation with the Company on the war path these days. Look at the fleet office. Protecting their boys from the pressures above? I don't think so... they're looking for the next person to be thrown under the bus... if that isn't something to rally and solidify the AOA's membership, I don't know what is.