Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.


Old 1st Sep 2016, 05:37
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hk
Age: 64
Posts: 150
Come on guys.... I didn't vote for him but he is our new chairman so I will give him my full support
PanZa-Lead is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2016, 08:51
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: a happy place
Posts: 80
Yeah Paul...
He was still a trainer while AOA chairman AND he was training one of the DFO/direct entry captains back in 2008. Same as DS now will train our new DFOs.
el commandante is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2016, 16:25
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Over There
Posts: 745
With attitudes posted here it doesn't really matter who tries to run this lot!

As for RF, I felt the same as I do with Obama. Can't wait until he's gone! Neither one accomplished anything!
cpdude is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2016, 23:01
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: hongkers
Posts: 77
Right on.
Bring back Dubya!!! There was a president who got things done.
giggerty is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2016, 15:02
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
"Given the current challenges we have around maximising the use of our freighter fleet, the Cargo team is deploying charters with Atlas Air aircraft to help boost revenue where they see opportunity. The plan includes eight North America and six India rotations this month. It is initially a trial, and pending the outcome, opportunities for further cooperation with Atlas Air may be considered."

Really? "Challenges we have around maximizing the use of our freighter fleet". Literally no one I have spoken to who flies the 747 is into EFP. In fact, many have noted how low their HDP is and that 4 crew flying to and from ANC is not uncommon. So if the current freighter fleet is underutilized, it certainly isn't for a lack of crews. Pure fantasy and fiction!

They are really playing the game hard. Don't fall for it. Stay the course...
cxorcist is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2016, 19:45
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Exist
Posts: 47
'Stay the course' to oblivion? Wouldn't be the first union to self destruct. Need to get smarter.
Ipad is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2016, 20:03
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 6
8 NAM freighters and 6 to India per month is self destructing? No, I don't think so. Our freighter fleet has high utilization. This has nothing to do with crewing. I think Boeing taking back the RR production freighters off lease caught the CX Management by surprise.
cxorcist is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2016, 23:30
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 673
Think you guys are misreading it. We will be flying on behalf of Atlas, not the other way round. MORE flying for us. When times are down they look for outside contracts. Not the first time this has happened.
geh065 is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 03:31
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The sky
Posts: 30
Who cares whos flying it - its our flying and jobs period.... Dont go down the nasty whipsaw slope, its time for scope.
Natca is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 07:49
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2007
Location: CLK
Posts: 368
Given we are paying double for our fuel, it is probably cheaper to get someone else to fly all of our freight contracts until the unfavourable hedge has run its course.
Farman Biplane is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2016, 16:36
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ****hanistan
Posts: 11
Reverse logic

Actually when hamstrung by expensive fuel hedge contract, it would be financially wise to grow the business and increase total fuel usage (at spot fuel prices) to the maximum extent. This decreases the ratio of hedged vs unhedged fuel use...

That's why management is so frustrated by cc and tb. They can't cover up their fuel hedging f***up!
StenchKroutil is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2016, 07:23
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 51
Posts: 229
How's the contradiction. Previous weeks saw in light of CC and TB we are offloading aircraft to dragon air who are ready for expansion and can embrace it, due Cathay can't expand due the failed TA because the pilots and the union didn't recommend it. Now the A50 is going to be at the forefront of growth and expansion with Boston and Vancouver next year..... Do they believe the crap they write or do they think the audience is 5 th graders?

One minute we are offloading planes because we can't expand and grow.

The next we are expanding and growing and making the most of opportunities as planned.

Truth is they were always gunna send aircraft and routes to Dragon. They are going to expand no matter what. They are never going to let us win industrially. They will never put forward a T A that will not see them as the big winners. Around and around we go.....!

Doesn't matter who the council or president are... We are screwed.
RAT Management is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2016, 07:27
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 319
True RAT, but the A50 won't be going to Boston yet unfortunately. The email was a bit misleading, only growth at Vancouver with an additional 3 services a week
TurningFinalRWY36 is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2016, 16:40
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: ****hanistan
Posts: 11
Motion for rule change

The AOA Chairman or GC members shall not be in Training to avoid any possibility of a conflict of interest. Current members will either resign their post in Training, or resign their post on the AOA GC or chairmanship.
StenchKroutil is offline  
Old 9th Sep 2016, 10:47
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Exist
Posts: 47
Has anybody noticed that our industrial action is just a minor annoyance now to the company? We have lost the gains we could have had in the agreement and now all we hear is 'stay the course', but just what is the course?
Ipad is offline  
Old 9th Sep 2016, 13:04
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: everywhere
Posts: 503
We have lost the gains we could have had in the agreement
What gains?
flyhardmo is online now  
Old 9th Sep 2016, 14:21
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 15
Bottom line !

When we joined as B-Scalers in April 1993, we were perhaps miffed that the then A-Scalers had not 'stood firm' to protect themselves (and us) from the very degradation of conditions (for us all !) which, surprise surprise, soon followed! Much gnashing of teeth has since occurred about what if anything A-Scalers could have done back then, to 'stop the rot'.

To that point in time though, there were no 2nd class citizens in CX, it was just ONE UNFIED SCALE.

Fast forward 16 years 3 months to July 2009 and HEY PRESTO the HK Government RDO legislation that ushered in 'Local Terms' for anyone Employing staff and / or Working in HKG, has been the document that CX has lent upon to try and become the GREAT harbinger of future work practices and conditions for the blue collar workers that we are certainly seen / deemed to be!

It's time for all of us to realise that 'divide and conquer' is RULE #1 in most corporate play books and here we are as B-Scalers, staring down the barrel of having our Expat Housing and other (agreed upon and naturally expected to continue) conditions, effectively traded for a deal that sees guys and girls who conciously / knowingly (90% plus would have done their research and new the history and that crew joining before July 2009 were on an historically better deal) accepted 'local terms', yet now naturally want what we B-Scalers have contractually accepted as the basis of our contract.

Could we have resisted the insidious shift at that point in 2009 ? Not likely is the retrospective answer. Sorry to say IMHO / FWIW.

If we can't now ALL effectively hold onto what we have, then the C-Scalers who joined of their own volition post July 2009 must surely realise that collectively we are simply 'greasing the slippery slide' that CX wants us to COLLECTIVELY slide down whilst bickering with our jealousy-infected 'blue collar' Brian's !!

We are not! We must not! And we certainly are capable of being smarter this time, ........... If only for the benefit of generation D and E.

Let's hold the line and force the trend line upwards, not downwards.

Last edited by Runnymede; 10th Sep 2016 at 03:17. Reason: Typo error / omission.
Runnymede is offline  

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