HONG KONG AIRLINES A350

[Strewth]

Strewth. Bollocks. * Gender specific version used here.

Globocnik, apologies if you felt insulted by the structure of my reply, was not my intention, just unaware of your gender or politically correct preferred pronoun.

In respect to your preoccupation with KY jelly, helmets and bollocks, this is irrelevant, HKA is an equal opportunity employer. Accept my apologies and have a great Valentines Day.

[MENELAUS]

And I thought CX had cornered the market in humour, charisma and irony bypasses.
Anyway, many thanks for the apology. I think. ? Wholly unnecessary, however thank you nonetheless.
Good luck with the interviews in Tegucigalpa.

[bringbackthe80s]

Originally Posted by ROW_BOT

Scouring the planet for victims - when all it really takes is a competitive package.
They never learn.

Genuine question as someone who's only ever been a tourist in HK, but looking at ppjn I can see the salary for a DEC on the 320 or possibly 330 is about 128500 HK dollars net per mont, possibly more if you have a wife and kid due to some tax relief.
No other benefits from what I understand so you'd have to factor the cost of (expensive) housing and a private pension, but this you would consider a bad package?

[ROW_BOT]

PACKAGE means the whole PACKAGE, not just pay.

HKA is a subsidiary of Hainan Group, which owns about a dozen airlines in China and they all pay WAY better than HKA, Tax free, with WAY better rostering, foreign Bases, or functional Commuting Rosters. They'll also probably have long haul flights to get you home, and with J Class tickets provided (free).
The guys I know in those jobs are pretty happy with life.
That's the right Package. Maybe you should research it.

But HKA is the poor cousin of the Hainan Group, and it's pilots also have the worst pay and conditions in Hong Kong. Right now HKA is like Dragonair (intensive short haul) without the time off or Roster Protections, and less pay. It may later morph into Cathay (i.e. Long haul) but without the time off, and without the pay, or housing, or Bases etc.

You can live cheap in Hong Kong with your family and survive on 128K per month (Gross), but you need to lay aside 25k of it for tax, maybe another 20k for housing (cheap family accom) then another 10k - 12k for schooling (Intl School, per kid, - if you can actually get a place! See link below), then maybe a loan to cover the cost of all your deposits, furnishing, utilities deposits etc. Then it's down to basics, food, transport, general expenses. Oh, and Private Health Cover. Don't rely on the company one. You'll be sorry.
If you are saving 20K/30K per month for your retirement you'll be doing well. So that's your Net benefit?
20k or 30k HKD per month? For living in a city where you'll soon realise you're just another rat in a cage?

Hong Kong Schools like prison. 71 pupil suicides in last three years
Third Schoolboy suicide in last eight days (12th Feb 2017)

I can't help feeling HKA is being used to drive down all pilot T&C's in HKG. CX Management may hate the competition, but I'm sure they are grinning all over their face at the licence it gives them to attack the CX/KA guys terms.

Anybody interested in making big money in Asia, get a long haul job in mainland China and get a Base in a civilised country. If you can't get into China, don't imagine a job in HKA is better in terms of your wealth, health, or sanity.
No pilot is getting rich in HKA, except maybe the FOP Management. To them you're just a damn nuisance. That's the final insult.

Drop Knee, your poison reference was just too subtle for him.

[strap]

HKA

Fully agree with ROW-BOT

Also leave is pathetic 28 days only, HK has 14 plus public hols per year, so in effect they only offer 2 weeks leave a year.
ID Travel what a joke non existent the system is so old fashioned it takes takes 7 working days to apply for a ticket and no agreements with other carriers.

No retirement benefits

Rosters are crap only 8 DDO days per month rest on standby.

So called comutte rosters only for lucky few and big drop in pay.

Housing in HK very very very costly as is everything else as well.

Advice go else where in China

[flyer25]

HKA Qualification

ApilotB,

I think if you have less than 500 hours you have a long way to go to qualify. I am confident you will need more than 1500 hours. However, maybe 1000 will do it so throw it in there, but read some of the reviews about HKA quite careful and ask yourself what you want to accomplish by up rooting yourself to come to a very expensive city and HKA. Depending on your age, you will not be typed when you arrive and it will take about 4-6 month to get a type rating on the A320 and license conversion in Hong Kong. Let's say 6 months, you check to the line, then you will need about 2500-3000 hours to get a Command offer maybe even longer if they already have DE CAPTs. The average monthly hours for a FO is about 50-60 right now maybe 65-75 in some cases. Divide that into 3000 hours and that will give an estimate of the time you might be able to upgrade. There are multiple items that go into being asked to upgrade so it's not a guarantee. This time estimate can certainly be much more so be careful. If I had a $1000 dollars:-) for every time I have seen the posts of people including myself that believe the grass is greener than where they are. I could probably retire right now. Be careful coming here as an FO to this part of the world, it's not like being an FO in Europe or the US as I am assuming you are right now.

Good Luck

[Strewth]

TD breaking news – Virgin Australia, HNA Aviation alliance revealed

Hong Kong Airlines assistant commercial director Michael Burke, CAPA August 07 2016.

[Strewth]

"Cathay and Qantas have got it by the throat" AA, Borghetti, Feb. 17, 2017

Virgin Australia launches flights to Hong Kong SMH, Feb 17, 2017

[Strewth]

Virgin Australia ACCC Australian Aviation

ACCC Registers gov.au pdf

[bringbackthe80s]

Anyway, disregarding every other consideration, why isn't there a clear layout of the contract type (permanent?), pay/allowances/staff travel on the recruitment page?
How can anyone go for selection without knowing these basics?

[Trafalgar]

....because they'd be embarrassed, and no one would show up for the interview.

[volare_737]

They will send it to you before you go for the interview !!

[jetjockey696]

It slightly old figures... but it is in the ballpark..

The MBA(G) = HOUSING ALLOWANCE.
MBA(P) = Flight allowance.
NO education allowance
there is health insurance for family
some FOC ticket for family on HKA network only

there is allowance if you fly wide body = HKD 2500 FO HKD5000 for Capt.

All money is taxable at 15% HK tax.

[flyer25]

Getting a copy of terms before the interview

No, you will not be given a copy of the contract or all the pays before you go to the interview. But I wouldn't assume anything until you speak to a person that knows. For instance, no one tells you that when you CCQ you go back to training pay for that period you are CCQ. Training pay is one specific pay. Now, imagine you are already settled with your family and then have to go back to training pay. There are other pays that go away at certain times if you are above 50 hours or below. This makes a difference in the month that you decide to take some of your 28 days of annual leave. Annual leave is unpaid. Someone said it exactly right, if they laid everything out including the fact they really don't have a commuting contract, no one would show up; ok maybe a few desperate folks like myself back in the day would chance it. But if you have nothing else going, I say go.

[flyer25]

I am impressed by the pay chart. It's not current some of the totals are spot on.

[Avinthenews]

Someone tell them to pick up a bunch of 747-8Is they can finish off the demise of CX with a large aircraft type and crews happy to jump ship from the shambles that is lifestyle on that fleet within CX.

[volare_737]

Flyer - what do you mean by annual leave is unpaid ??? Surely you get your basic plus the 50 hours which is guaranteed !!!!

[flyer25]

I meant that they are unpaid in that they are not valued or counted as add pay for you. So, if I use 2 weeks of the 28 days. You will get the basic pay plus MBA(G) and not other pays for the month; unless you trigger the other pays and fly above 50 hours which almost never happens. Sorry for the confusion. You can not sell the leave back for any value or have it count as additional pay towards your pay for the month. But lets say you take 2 days of sick leave without a sick note. You will be charged a certain amount for each of those days, it's a few hundred dollars USD per day. It's not a small amount and a nasty note in your file which may affect your bonus. But HKA lost a court case recently that will compel them to offer 48 days of annual leave or pay each pilot for 20 days of annual leave every year. This order was issued in January and since then the company has been silent while it runs various options with the lawyers to see how they mitigate having to pay out and assign a value to each day of annual leave. So, this case is a big deal in the company behind closed doors in that it will force them to come to terms with having to pay for each day of annual leave. It will be interesting see how they play this. They have announced that they will be offering MyIdTravel in April. But I am not sure how many carriers they will be able to travel with on Zed.

[bringbackthe80s]

So the 50 hours payment is not guaranteed? You only get it if you actually fly 50 hrs.
If you take holidays or are sick and fly say 20 hrs, then you fall into the 0-26 hrs bracket and your monthly salary gross is 95000+8750= 103750
which is 88188 hk dollar net more or less

Is this correct?

[flyer25]

Bringbackthe80s, yes that's almost correct. However, if you fly 20 hours it would be 20hrs x (the pay rate for the block of hours 1-25). So, it would be slightly less. This is why they probably prohibited ladies and gents from swapping trips down below 50 hours of block time. So, you can give someone a trip from your schedule but you have to stay above 50 hours as well, as of last month. I think some people were just willing to take less pay and fly under the 50 hours. You could as of the last month's pilot meeting, trade for days off and give to someone your trip(s) thereby flying less than 50 hours. If you lived in the Philippines or somewhere else, then this gives you more time at home. You would retain some pay while having many more days off. But this sort of trade is only possible thru the informal trading using whatsapp. Remember, at HKA, days off are a big deal. The company promotes the philosophy of a "just culture" in which theoretically everyone has about the same number of days off which includes pilots. HR and the upper level management can not let go of the idea that someone would have more than the min days off if not using annual leave. Your life as a pilot should not be better than office staff. But I wouldn't jump ship from say CX to HKA unless things were bad for me at CX. CX has at this point still many more upside benefits even if you are sick of continuous long haul and all the other BS at CX.