The open threat from Ms. Thompson the Director of Flight Operations
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excellent S22….you'll easily be able to find Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Hyderabad. (actually, I can't take credit for the post about KA operations…..it was from an earlier post……but you guys are easy to wind up!).
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Oh really?
Busan,Beijing,Rangoon,Calcutta, Bangalore,Dhaka and Kathmandu.
As far as I an aware Bangalore is still in India.
Busan,Beijing,Rangoon,Calcutta, Bangalore,Dhaka and Kathmandu.
As far as I an aware Bangalore is still in India.
Comparing long haul fleet utilisation to that of a regional is akin to comparing a wet sock to a peanut factory. Coming from a poster that wrote 2 pages on Swire buying Virgin Australia, what can you expect?
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S22,
The problem is not what KA is doing, it is what they are not doing. With the current fleet they need to do another 170 hours a day to be operating the aircraft at the same efficiency as CX.
If CX sends 3 aircraft to KA, they will only be flying on average as much as 2 CX aircraft. Send 6 across, they will only do the flying of 4. Get the picture, sending aircraft across it makes it only worse for the group.
Air Hong Kong send three aircraft across, they will fly equivalent to one CX aircraft.
If KA were as efficient, or more efficient than CX it would make sense to send aircraft across as a strategy to expand, however sending aircraft across to an organisation that is less efficient reduces capacity.
CX gets the same average productivity across the board because the aircraft spend more time flying at night, even the aircraft which only fly regionally.
MtM, dont forget you described the majority of CX pilots as "The sooner you arrogant, sexist, homophobic, racist pricks die out the better. Perhaps then the professional could be put into 'professionalism' with regard to our industry. Putting an end to the ill-informed, lay the boot in, devour your own drivel that has filled this thread. "
The problem is not what KA is doing, it is what they are not doing. With the current fleet they need to do another 170 hours a day to be operating the aircraft at the same efficiency as CX.
If CX sends 3 aircraft to KA, they will only be flying on average as much as 2 CX aircraft. Send 6 across, they will only do the flying of 4. Get the picture, sending aircraft across it makes it only worse for the group.
Air Hong Kong send three aircraft across, they will fly equivalent to one CX aircraft.
If KA were as efficient, or more efficient than CX it would make sense to send aircraft across as a strategy to expand, however sending aircraft across to an organisation that is less efficient reduces capacity.
Comparing long haul fleet utilisation to that of a regional is akin to comparing a wet sock to a peanut factory.
MtM, dont forget you described the majority of CX pilots as "The sooner you arrogant, sexist, homophobic, racist pricks die out the better. Perhaps then the professional could be put into 'professionalism' with regard to our industry. Putting an end to the ill-informed, lay the boot in, devour your own drivel that has filled this thread. "
Last edited by hkgfooey; 27th Apr 2016 at 12:44.
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Much like 15 years ago you all think the company is going to do exactly what you want and expect. Let me say that again, what you want and expect.
Well guess what.
And you honestly think everyone's going to stick together.
Wow. We haven't on the previous 5 occasions I can think of.
We all do what's best for each of us and come up with the most pathetic reasons why so we can justify it.
Well guess what.
And you honestly think everyone's going to stick together.
Wow. We haven't on the previous 5 occasions I can think of.
We all do what's best for each of us and come up with the most pathetic reasons why so we can justify it.
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ALL YOU PEOPLE!
Don't we pilots take what comes our way, evaluate it, determine a solution and action it?
Rather than increasing our blood pressure, why don't we just wait to see what happens and follow the plan I just stated?
Or, is this this life you all want to live? Do you all want to type your frustrations, valid or not, on this forum? Do you have better things to do with your life?
Don't we pilots take what comes our way, evaluate it, determine a solution and action it?
Rather than increasing our blood pressure, why don't we just wait to see what happens and follow the plan I just stated?
Or, is this this life you all want to live? Do you all want to type your frustrations, valid or not, on this forum? Do you have better things to do with your life?
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For those quoting 13.1...
Since CPA services would be continuing at bases which operate the 747F such as YVR, YYZ, ORD, LAX etc etc, section 12.1 would be more applicable.
If they did want to completely close a base OR should they wish to reduce the overall crewing level at any of the above mentioned bases then it would happen in reverse order of seniority. Note, many Freighter pilots are more senior than the most junior Pax pilots at their base. Remember, ASL is not rank specific so a Freighter CN could bump a junior Pax CN or most FO's.
I don't think CX wants to open that can of worms!
Since CPA services would be continuing at bases which operate the 747F such as YVR, YYZ, ORD, LAX etc etc, section 12.1 would be more applicable.
If they did want to completely close a base OR should they wish to reduce the overall crewing level at any of the above mentioned bases then it would happen in reverse order of seniority. Note, many Freighter pilots are more senior than the most junior Pax pilots at their base. Remember, ASL is not rank specific so a Freighter CN could bump a junior Pax CN or most FO's.
I don't think CX wants to open that can of worms!
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CK feels the need to interpret the AFTL's
In other news, I have "re-intepreted" the national speed limit of 100kph to mean 100, plus or minus 20kph. I have "shared" this new interpretation with the local constabulary and the CAD.
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Well, I guess that will make us feel better about speeding while we do it. It won't mean much to the cop who pulls you over or to the judge/jury who hears the case.
Especially if you happen to be speeding in another jurisdiction. in fact, if one state/province saw that you were able to get away with something that wasn't kosher (and affected your general behavior) in your home state/province, they may well see fit to declare your license invalid in theirs--at least while trying to operate there.
The hubris of thinking one's interpretation of the law counts outside of one's personal empire often causes great chagrin. Mainly because the entity that matters is the one where your feet are planted at that particular time -- looking at things from THEIR point of view.
Especially if you happen to be speeding in another jurisdiction. in fact, if one state/province saw that you were able to get away with something that wasn't kosher (and affected your general behavior) in your home state/province, they may well see fit to declare your license invalid in theirs--at least while trying to operate there.
The hubris of thinking one's interpretation of the law counts outside of one's personal empire often causes great chagrin. Mainly because the entity that matters is the one where your feet are planted at that particular time -- looking at things from THEIR point of view.
Last edited by Shep69; 28th Apr 2016 at 23:56.
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Well, I guess that will make us feel better about speeding while we do it. It won't mean much to the cop who pulls you over or to the judge/jury who hears the case.
Especially if you happen to be speeding in another jurisdiction. in fact, if one state/province saw that you were able to get away with something that wasn't kosher (and affected your general behavior) in your home state/province, they may well see fit to declare your license invalid in theirs--at least while trying to operate there.
The hubris of thinking your interpretation of the law counts outside of your personal empire often causes great chagrin. Mainly because the entity that matters is the one where your feet are planted at that particular time -- looking at things from THEIR point of view.
Especially if you happen to be speeding in another jurisdiction. in fact, if one state/province saw that you were able to get away with something that wasn't kosher (and affected your general behavior) in your home state/province, they may well see fit to declare your license invalid in theirs--at least while trying to operate there.
The hubris of thinking your interpretation of the law counts outside of your personal empire often causes great chagrin. Mainly because the entity that matters is the one where your feet are planted at that particular time -- looking at things from THEIR point of view.
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Sorry, billy -- was another hyperbole but I guess I didn't use enough third person pronouns and perhaps phrased it poorly--wasn't directed at OK 4-wire but expanding the issue as to how if a company picks a definition that suits them it can come into problems when the adjudicator that counts doesn't see it the same way.
And that involves many other players than just the local CAD.
And that involves many other players than just the local CAD.
Last edited by Shep69; 29th Apr 2016 at 00:05.
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Irony is always best delivered face to face. Body language, and all that.
Curtain, if what you are saying is close to what they are working on, then I shall take back my poor attempt at satire.
Curtain, if what you are saying is close to what they are working on, then I shall take back my poor attempt at satire.
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Somehow i doubt if CK is involved it will be to our benefit…..only have to look at the way he f***Ed over the airbus fleet to get where he wanted to be!
That said, if they can confirm things like 'rest' and 'room available', instead of just using the time of arrival at the hotel to start rest, that would be good.
That said, if they can confirm things like 'rest' and 'room available', instead of just using the time of arrival at the hotel to start rest, that would be good.
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Agreed 100% Dan,
And why does CX need to use terms which are not in CAD371. It would be a lot more transparent to the regulator and to the pilots what that document says if there was consistency between the AFTLs and CAT371.
The AFTLs refer to terms throughout which are not even defined.
Every definition in the AFTLs should be clearly defined in the front of the document, and every use of a definition should have a Capital Letter at the start or each word and in italics.
Every reference to schedule needs to be updated to reflect if it is a Aircraft Schedule or Crew Schedule. The CAD 371 document is there for the prevention of fatigue for crew, however many of the "interpretations" CC use resolve around the Aircraft Schedule which does not require inflight relief, or commanders discretion to fly longer.
If an aircraft diverts to an offline port, the additional sector is not an Aircraft Schedule or Crew Schedule, there is no prior plan for that sector.
Crew Schedule should mean published roster, none of these 8929 changes, reserve callouts, or changes made at dispatch. That is unplanned.
Aircraft Schedule mean the CX published timetable, and a fixed timetable made for the freighter. Not on that Aircraft Schedule means its unplanned.
Should means must/will, no crew control discretion.
Normally means must/will, unless the crew member whom fatigue is being prevented by the AFTLs agrees, , no crew control discretion.
Service disruption means the following events A,B, C, D, which are published in real time by the following means and reported to the CAD on a quarterly basis. Service disruption does not include a change in the Aircraft Schedule to uplift or offload passengers or freight.
The other issue is what happens when an AFTL limit is exceeded ? When we exceed a limit on an aircraft it has to undergo an inspection. Exceed a limit on a crew member there is no consequence. The should be a mandatory 72 hours off or similar so that when CC send crew on on reserve with a duty that lands withing 10 minutes of max FDP based upon Aircraft Schedule that no aircraft has actually landed on the Aircraft Schedule for weeks is complicit to knowingly busting AFTLS. Reserve callouts are unplanned, actual duty start and stop times are required to be considered.
"O" days, day of reserve.
Calling crew out for reserve duties that have an Aircraft Schedule just landing just prior to midnight knowing full well that is one of the busiest times in HKIA. Crew members duty goes part midnight into the G, no penalty.
And why does CX need to use terms which are not in CAD371. It would be a lot more transparent to the regulator and to the pilots what that document says if there was consistency between the AFTLs and CAT371.
The AFTLs refer to terms throughout which are not even defined.
Every definition in the AFTLs should be clearly defined in the front of the document, and every use of a definition should have a Capital Letter at the start or each word and in italics.
Every reference to schedule needs to be updated to reflect if it is a Aircraft Schedule or Crew Schedule. The CAD 371 document is there for the prevention of fatigue for crew, however many of the "interpretations" CC use resolve around the Aircraft Schedule which does not require inflight relief, or commanders discretion to fly longer.
If an aircraft diverts to an offline port, the additional sector is not an Aircraft Schedule or Crew Schedule, there is no prior plan for that sector.
Crew Schedule should mean published roster, none of these 8929 changes, reserve callouts, or changes made at dispatch. That is unplanned.
Aircraft Schedule mean the CX published timetable, and a fixed timetable made for the freighter. Not on that Aircraft Schedule means its unplanned.
Should means must/will, no crew control discretion.
Normally means must/will, unless the crew member whom fatigue is being prevented by the AFTLs agrees, , no crew control discretion.
Service disruption means the following events A,B, C, D, which are published in real time by the following means and reported to the CAD on a quarterly basis. Service disruption does not include a change in the Aircraft Schedule to uplift or offload passengers or freight.
The other issue is what happens when an AFTL limit is exceeded ? When we exceed a limit on an aircraft it has to undergo an inspection. Exceed a limit on a crew member there is no consequence. The should be a mandatory 72 hours off or similar so that when CC send crew on on reserve with a duty that lands withing 10 minutes of max FDP based upon Aircraft Schedule that no aircraft has actually landed on the Aircraft Schedule for weeks is complicit to knowingly busting AFTLS. Reserve callouts are unplanned, actual duty start and stop times are required to be considered.
"O" days, day of reserve.
Calling crew out for reserve duties that have an Aircraft Schedule just landing just prior to midnight knowing full well that is one of the busiest times in HKIA. Crew members duty goes part midnight into the G, no penalty.
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In the, did you not know section, today, they are still training new FOs on the jumbo jet! Strange that really. They would then have to retrain them, no?
We still need to be careful though about what's going on but to be honest, I don't think they even know anymore. We do not have real airline people running the airline. We have misfit toys running the place. Watch toy story three to see what I mean. AT is the one eyed doll.
We still need to be careful though about what's going on but to be honest, I don't think they even know anymore. We do not have real airline people running the airline. We have misfit toys running the place. Watch toy story three to see what I mean. AT is the one eyed doll.
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Your "Crew Schedule" should mean "published roster?" That's exactly what the company has been saying forever. Therefore, your "real time roster" is not subject to ANY of the provisions about what is published, planned, supposed to happen. See? Obviously, the "real time roster" is a crew schedule too: An updated one.
CAD371 says The words ‘scheduled’, ‘planned’, ‘rostered’ are used interchangeably in this document and shall be construed as meaning what was intended to happen. That is the published roster. The real time roster is not what was planned, it is the historical record of what happened.
If it is not on the published roster, it falls under the CAD371 definition of standby. "A period during which an operator places constraints on a crew member who would otherwise be off duty". It also says "The time of start, end and nature of the standby duty must be defined and notified to all Flight Crew members". That is the real time roster.
If the CAD371 rules for any duty that falls under the CAD "standby" definition (i.e. any roster change, any reserve callout, any change made at dispatch, any O day) were applied correctly, it would go a long way to preventing fatigue.
There is absolutely no incentive to maintain the published roster duties, and published start/stop times. You can finished duty at 8pm, have a published duty at at 3pm next day. Call 8929, next day duty changed to reserve start at 6am. You had already counted on that morning in your rest plan to catch up on sleep.
The abuse the trainers, freighters pilots, and airbus pilots see every month in terms of roster changes is shameful. What is more disgusting is the number of missed duties every month crews get because they cannot keep up with the changes.