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The open threat from Ms. Thompson the Director of Flight Operations

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The open threat from Ms. Thompson the Director of Flight Operations

Old 26th Apr 2016, 23:39
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Pilots deadline July 18.

Farnborough will be over, if nothing's ordered we can just move the deadline.

Now where have I seen moving goalposts before

The funny thing is, so many crew are sick to death of CX, they actually want to see what moronic long term consequence they actually come up with, get that AT we don't actually care any more.
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Old 26th Apr 2016, 23:42
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Heres the latest on the Tolouse meetings.

http://youtu.be/K4anNb2jS4Q
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 00:48
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The Visionary

Basings policy 13.1 applies to all basing areas, even to the ones who have it as part of their CBA. As such CX is in their right to reduce manning levels if the B747's are gone.
As for training, the 747's don't go all right away, but over a period of time. Instead of hiring guys as cadets and train SO's, upgrade JFO's and Captains, the 747 guys just need a conversion. Which saves a huge amount of training, I would say approx. 1/2 to 2/3rd of the training task compared to training new hires and upgrading through the ranks.
Officers who don't want to come have to resign, officers who don't have the seniority have to take a downgrade. Thats the whole play, divide and conquer. As the most adversely affected officers are based freighter captains represented by their own unions, they are a low priority to the HKAOA in the great scheme of things and the present negotiations.
CX cargo is a separate business entity leasing cargo space from Cathay Pacific Airways. They would then lease it from AHK. There would be no change to CX cargo as this business entity has nothing to do with the airline.

Anyways this is just a rumour and might not happen. But don't kid yourself, I have been here long enough to realize the hammer is coming down 1. June. Doesn't matter if it will cost them millions, shrinks the airline or else, it all comes down to regain and maintain control for CX management.The play is already in motion, well above AT pay grade and I fear the HKAOA and CX will not find a conclusion to their negotiations in time.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 01:09
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Today's SCMP

Cathay Pacific pilots are worried about mass sackings following a management ultimatum to solve a long-running labour dispute by the end of next month or face changes that could bring “long-term consequences”.

Cathay’s director of flight operations, Anna Thompson, issued the warning in a letter to all pilots last Thursday, without specifying what changes Hong Kong’s flagship carrier was planning or what the consequences would be.

Pilots fear the airline could start firing cockpit crew who initiated, or are taking part in, a work-to-rule that has been going on since December 2014.

“There are a number of challenges we need to resolve to make sure we can continue to grow and remain competitive in this tough industry,” Thompson wrote in the letter obtained by the Post.

“Without an agreement by May 31, we will have no option but to make changes which may have long-term consequences.”

The Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association (AOA), representing 2,100 of Cathay’s 2,900 pilots, launched the work-to-rule action over a pay-rise dispute. *Although the issue was resolved, pilots continued their industrial action because of other disputes, such as roster patterns.

They have been sticking to the bare minimum as laid out in their contracts, including not working on their days off, which they had been doing in the face of a cockpit crew shortage. The association has also initiated a “training ban”– forbidding members to join a programme for junior pilots that gives them the necessary training to be promoted to senior ranks

“Our growth, especially during a time of rapid expansion – we’re set to receive the first 12 of 48 A350s this year – depends on having crew skilled at the right levels, and at this point we’re being forced to consider measures to sustain and protect our operation,” Thompson said.

The airline management and the pilots’ union had agreed to restart negotiations early next month, she added.

A Cathay spokesman yesterday declined to reveal what changes the airline would make if the dispute was not resolved by the deadline, which he said was essential for the carrier.

“To help make sure an agreement is reached by May 31, *Cathay managers spent all of last week in meetings with the pilots’ union to prepare for the negotiations,” he added.

The AOA hit back at Thompson in a letter to its members this week.

“Whilst we recognise the need to solve these issues promptly, we in no way endorse a May 31 ultimatum. Let nobody be mistaken, all AOA resources are available to reach agreement, but we are very wary of ultimatum politics,” AOA chairman Rod Fogarty wrote.

“Cathay’s history is littered with failed ultimatum politics. We have not agreed to this imposed deadline and we do not consider this ultimatum helpful.”

A pilot asked: “Will they sack people, impose new contracts, bring in contract pilots or what? None of the possible solutions are going to improve the industrial situation and could end up being commercial suicide.”

The AOA’s last work-to-rule in 2001 led to the sacking of 49 pilots in one day. They were fired about a week into their action. A month into the action, Cathay’s then-chairman, James Hughes-Hallett, said it had already cost the airline HK$350 million.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 01:18
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HK based 747 crews convert to Airbus and B777
I'd stay in CC just to get that.

Seriously though, she just said the opposite. That she was looking at transferring the senior 747 crew to other fleet, but the training ban made it impossible.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 01:27
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Looking at 380s now, that's great. Typical. Just like getting EFBs just in time to have them turn obsolete. I'd say behind the 8 ball but I think they are still looking for their cue.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 02:19
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Airbus have just opened a new Aviation Training Centre in SIN with 3 A350 and 2 A330 sims for type ratings and RTs etc. This might be an avenue for them to increase their training rate whether it be DFOs or 747 guys. Doesn't help with the LFUS sector requirements though.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 02:33
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Red 350

Which is exactly why KA will be getting at least two A50s to cover some of that training load.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 02:45
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They have been sticking to the bare minimum as laid out in their contracts, including not working on their days off
Yeah, sack them all.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 02:52
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Trafalgar,

My true colours are not in question. I signed for COS 08 for my own reasons and right now, whether or not the COS99 pilots get RA 65 or have to leave at RA55, doesn't affect me personally i.e. i don't have an iron in this fire. Personal view, and i have held it for a long time, I hope that those who made the COS 99 choice get a choice of whether they work beyond RA55 and keep their by-pass pay. That is for the common good and would have me half smiling in that my choices might have been better.

That said, i do recall the impact on the time to command (12 years+ for me) when RA 65 was introduced. With all the clamoring for a 65 year retirement age by a large group i am just wondering what compensation you would suggest is adequate for the junior guys whose commands you are in essence keeping should you extend beyond your chosen retirement age or is it really, once again, ME ME ME!

RA65? F*** that. Right now RA45 sounds a lot more appealing.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 04:00
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GTC58
Out of all the rumours I have heard, yours is the only one that makes sense to me. The Airbus training has been wound right down - maybe resting them up for a bunch of conversions later this year? The command upgrade rate has been dropped to single digits - a command is 40-60 sectors, a conversion is around 12.

Farnborough aircraft order - hmmm - good rumour, I like it;-)

What's that chinese curse? May you live in interesting times? Its' been real, that's for sure!!!
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 06:24
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Sorry Numero,

But how is transferring 13 747 to AHK making more sense than transferring the same amount of 330 to KA?

1. In option 1: AHK needs the ressources to replace the pilots
In option 2: KA does. Similar problem
2. Option 1: CX ex-747 pilots need long courses to convert to the airbus and shorter courses for the 777
Option 2: ex-330 pilots do a short conversion to fly the A50.

Unless crew costs at AHK are so much lower then at KA, I don't think it makes any sense.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 06:37
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Word of AHK managers running around all giddy "Can't tell you what's happening but just you wait! You're in the right place" has been circulating for quite some time. CX Cargo flying being moved to AHK with their lower cost base and lesser contractual protections is damn near inevitable. They're already operating a number of CX flights.

KA managers remain in their usual catatonic state so I doubt any post-May solution involves them. They'd have to start some serious recruitment to be worthy of a raised eyebrow.

Previous comments have suggested traffic rights being a problem - doesn't apply to wet leasing. They do apply to a genuine transfer of flights between group airlines, such as PEN to KA, but that port was an unrestricted transfer due to the open skies agreement. That makes KUL, SIN and other such ports fair game if they chose to go down that path. Also, cargo-only flights are far less restricted as can be seen from many airlines with fifth freedom rights, including our own.

I could see displaced 747 drivers being sent to KA with a few A330's for a three birds, one stone solution. A few more A330's to KA eases manpower constraints, outsources the freighter pilot conversions, reducing training loads and keeps said pilots busy till they can move home to the A50.

Interesting times indeed.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 06:49
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Four 747s freighters will be leaving in 2016 as they were sold to Boeing in 2013 as part of a package of 6 aircraft, the remaining 747 pax airframes will also be retired this year. Three A340s leave this year, three KA A330s are being returned to the lessor to be replaced by three A330s that are owned by CX.

Next year the first two 777-300ER leases expire, the remaining A340s go, two more freighters go, and another two leased A330s leave KA.

KA cannot fly the aircraft they have let alone handle more, every CX aircraft does at least 50% more flying a day. KA is not the solution, they are part of the problem, their pilots never fly at night and that is were all the available slots are at HKIA.

Air Hong Kong also has very low productivity rates, those aircraft only average around 4 hours a day. The other problem with Air Hong Kong is that is not 100% owned by CX and has contractual limits on what other cargo it may carry.

CX has the most productive aircraft and crew in the group by a significant margin.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 06:55
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Ok, I am wrong then.

But that plan must have been cooking for a while?
After all, AT is ex AHK.

If they want to do it, they will do it. I am expecting no agreement on the RPs then. It's just a lame excuse.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 07:37
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Hopefully we won't negotiate based on what is inevitable anyway!
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 09:23
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Nobody cares about any of this $hit anymore. They will do what they do. If it's bad for pilots, so be it. It is clear that the current trajectory isn't sustainable from a health and wellbeing standpoint. The sooner we fall, the sooner we'll rise.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 09:36
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'KA cannot fly the aircraft they have let alone handle more, every CX aircraft does at least 50% more flying a day. KA is not the solution, they are part of the problem, their pilots never fly at night and that is were all the available slots are at HKIA.'

Give em a few 330's, give them the same leave as those at CX (harmonization i think they called it with priority 25) and introduce them to India! Lovely!
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 09:49
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[QUOTE=Hugo Peroni the IV;9357762]'KA cannot fly the aircraft they have let alone handle more, every CX aircraft does at least 50% more flying a day. KA is not the solution, they are part of the problem, their pilots never fly at night and that is were all the available slots are at HKIA.'

Oh really?
Busan,Beijing,Rangoon,Calcutta, Bangalore,Dhaka and Kathmandu.

As far as I an aware Bangalore is still in India.
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Old 27th Apr 2016, 10:03
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http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...ilot-positions
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