19 pages of drivel

[Gnadenburg]

Gnadenburg, you are not a cx employee so why do you comment other than to fan the fire as you have done in previous posts. Clearly you don't get it. This is not your typical trolling ground of staff travel upmanship. You don't belong here, this is professional pilot's stuff. The topic here does not affect you...yet.... but debates a crucial divide between the abilities of professional aircrew to exert their ability to self certify their fitness under what is legislated under the ANO's as opposed to a company mandate to "manage" the submitted ASR-F.
Yes you read that correctly, the company appointed office wallahs, those whom have never occupied the space forward of the flight deck door will decide whether is is reasonable that you have decided you are fatigued.
I await the legalities of such to be tested in a court of law but clearly the discourse is somewhat stratospheric for you so please grow up and save your juvenile comment for the soap opera topics that are your normal area of expertise because this one may well be a bit above your pay grade.

Firewall thank you for asking. I'm either a CX employee or a CX puppet on a string. I'd be happy to walk you through the Boathouse to present the evidence as to why I'm drawn to that conclusion. There has been no trolling or one-upmanship on my part. I'm furious at the cheap shots that now appear in most of "your" debates that you think don't affect me. There's also an almost sanctimonious ignorance in parts of your camp that whats happening over your way is new and KA pilots are on some sort of contractual privilege.

In light of the very recent dissolution of KA's Corporate Safety Department and the emergence of a Group Safety Department thank you for your lecture on ASR-F's. I'd suggest concerns are mutual. I'll leave it there.

It may interest our CX colleagues to know that KA pilots can only self certify for 3 days. However, there is no 'absence management policy' in place that is accessible to the rank and file. I guess that is about to change.

Yes there was. Though the policy vague. A CX scheme was put into effect possibly in a wash-up strategy to the successful contract compliance campaign. The DPA fought it based on its impracticality and irrelevance to a short-haul operation operating into China. It was changed to a more subjective process so it was probably unworkable for KA's CX management team too. Comically young Second Officers wearing surgery masks to work was as good a look as masked Cabin Crew serving food and beverages in the cabin. So the policy was flagging genuine sickness and probably making it worse.

[Liam Gallagher]

Only 2 more days left to self-certify for 7 days..... Use them wisely....

[joblow]

From a previous thread

I would suggest that ever single one of you book an appointment with your GP to discuss this issue before you actually become sick so that you have an understanding with your doctor about what goes on the form .

That's give or take 3300 GP visits at an average of $300 -$500 per visit approx totaling some $1.65 million in one month
I cannot see Quality Health putting up with that for very long . CX tried this before and fell flat on their face because of the cost issue something about doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome

Come on guys you are intelligent individuals start thinking outside the box make it painful,for them

[geh065]

Why would Quality Health have an issue with that? More business for them!!
I heard that CX pays for doctors fees case by case, so it is CX who will foot the bills and they are already prepared for the increase in doctor fees. Small price to pay in return for having more pilots turning up to work in their opinion, afterall they don't actually care if sick pilots go flying as long as the flights depart.

[Soul planet]

You haven't taken into account the wives and kids gonna get sick from the husband being sick at home

[oriental flyer]

Geh065

Hate to disagree with you because I may be wrong but it has always been my understanding that CX have a group account with Quality health to which we and the company contribute .
Quality health or Raffles if you prefer , are like any medical aid company if you make too many claims they increase your rates accordingly

[ron burgandy]

CX self insures, QHMS administers the system on their behalf. Every visit comes out of CX's pocket. The person who has the final say over yes/no of claims is a CX employee, not QHMS.

[jumbobelle]

Those working under European law, the company is not allowed to ask why you were off sick. If you're flying in and out of UK airspace and come up against fatigue/sickness issues there, CHIRPs is very good and has taken a couple of my issues up in the past.

[oriental flyer]

Ron if you are correct that would explain why 80% of the better doctors in HK won't touch CX they simply don't pay the going rate

[Numero Crunchero]

I'll be honest.... when this policy was first introduced over a decade ago, I felt intimidated when I went sick on the next occasion. But CX did me a favour(favor for USAOA). They made me realise CX is a job, not a life. I have considered a few alternative careers in my life since selecting flying (law, accountancy, teaching, medicine) and yet here I am. A part of me always wonders if my life would have been better if CX had fired me(or I quit) a long time ago so I could have experienced another career!?

I don't say this to be industrial - I say it as a life lesson - if you think CX is responsible for most of your 'glass is half full' attitude then you are inevitably to be disappointed on their degradation of conditions.

The blame has often been apportioned on one group - in this case, C&Ters - easy to blame them as most of us aren't. Well - how about if SOs refused to fly? Or if FOs refused to do landings -or if CNs refused to do landings? Those three options would have an effect between 35-90 days. Point is - it is very easy to target a group that isn't US to do the heavy lifting for the entire group. It just doesn't work - some are prepared to strike - some just CC - why denigrate those willing to help but only by CC?

Next we can blame AOA (A/E/US/C) as an alternative. Whilst the other 4 unions have less than half the total HKAOA membership, they 'pseudo' represent probably over 50% of the current HKAOA membership. And they are all acting iaw their members but cognisant of their HKG based nationals!

WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM
Don't look for differences to blame your gripes on ----- we are all trying to make things better despite what company pravda comms might state.


Bottom line - I was on the infamous 49ers list - that is liberating. It makes you realise the company cares as much for you as they care about hedging fuel when it is cheap! So don't do anything different.....do what I do every flight where I have to make a decision - first question - is it smart? Second question...is it legal? Third question...is it the CX preferred decision?

Until recently all three questions aligned ---the more they don't align is more of an indicator of CX going off the rails.

I will fly and do my best to keep the operation going(and I may even go into discretion) but I'll be fcxxd before I let some kangaroo court process affect me going sick

In the meantime, I am allowed to work on G days and do training but I exercise my right not to be a cxxt and refrain to do so apart from my non HK based peers....for whom I apologise!(as in I apologise for anyone from the antipodes who thinks now is a good time to take up training!)

[Bob Hawke]

Bravo NC. Integrity is virtue.

[Interested_Party]

So why then NC did you go into the training office to ask about training?

[Soul planet]

or revise the Bro Code

[Not Hiding]

FOs refusing landings

NC, I refused to do the landing because I would have been too fatigued, after having been awake doing relief the first half of the flight during my WOCL and not having been able to sleep during the turbulence over Japan the last half of the flight. I expected to get a landing on the next sector but, despite being told by management that I needed the sector, the captain refused. My landing recency expired.

I was called into MH's office with a letter stating that "one of the outcomes of this meeting may be termination."

I don't think that FOs refusing to do landings is realistic.

[Anotherday]

I've had a run in with the company recently and told I'm top of the list for the next bunch of 49ers. So I'd have to agree that the nice thing about being utterly worthless is it gets you looking at all the other aspects of your life and what's really important. Make your money, stay under the radar, avoid the psychopaths.

When do we find out if we're stage 3 sickness?

[OK4Wire]

Another day: You can't be! They told me I was at the top!!

[ron burgandy]

Maybe 3 different lanyards of increasing intensity of red to signify which stage you've attained 😝 Collect the whole set!

[Numero Crunchero]

interested party
that was a long time ago - and because I am interested in doing training. But since the HKAOA introduced a training ban I have made zero efforts to become a trainer.

[Liam Gallagher]

Absence Management Program

Does the Absence Management Program allow me to report someone as being absent?

Can I report the DFO and CAD as being absent?

There's some weird rostering shi'ite going on out there......... and the DFO and CAD are conspicuous only by their absence.

[goathead]

Lanyards
Maybe line pilots can have different shades of red for there stage 1/2/3
And Trainers can get pink ones
Boy am I sick of hearing them complain about there rosters and the reply Anna gave them