19 pages of drivel

[Soul planet]

Alternatively, we can learn something from this model:



The Vereinigung Cockpit eV (VC), the association of commercial pilot and flight engineers in Germany , based in Frankfurt .
Vereinigung Cockpit e.V. Report

Just when I thought that nobody cared about the issues we discuss here it seems that I have found the platform many of us have been looking for. I have shared my story and evidence with the German Pilot Union "Vereinigung Cockpit". They have an open ear for such complaints and understand the situation very well. I think this could be a game changer and I encourage you to contact them. They are offering secure and confidential reporting for issues at airlines where legal relief is not available. You can also send them evidence or volunteer as a witness with whatever level of anonymity you are comfortable with. They will only use what you agree to and will not share your identity.


Vereinigung Cockpit is the association of airline pilots and flight engineers in Germany. Today, it has approximately 9600 cockpit crew members from all German airlines (even during their training) as well as commercial helicopter pilots. The fundamental objectives of VC are to contribute to the welfare of civil aviation as well as to ensure and pursue the interests of its members regarding professional and collective bargaining policies. Among other things, they achieve this by influencing legislation and informing the public about the professional, sociopolitical and economic situation of cockpit crews. They are very reasonable people but also pack a punch. In the past 2 years they have gone on 13 strikes against Lufthansa and been all over the media.

[Cool banana]

BUT FIRST.....

http://hk.on.cc/hk/bkn/cnt/news/2016...00822_001.html

what happened to our dragon plane?

On the 8th Feb at midnight a Dragon Air A320 during a ground engine run functional check on the #2 engine, the engine cowl failed lucky no-one was injured. Its appears that the engine cowling wasn't secured closed.

[Oval3Holer]

That should be our new rallying cry: FOUR TIMES FIVE! FOUR TIMES FIVE!

[ron burgandy]

Surely the response is for us all to be unfit 6 lots of 7 days, and have everyone in stage 1. But rather than trying to fix the problem, they'll then spend another couple of million hiring another half dozen FCRMs to interview us all.......

[Apple Tree Yard]

This is a management beyond redemption. Instead of focusing their efforts on solving the myriad of problems that have become ensconced because of their incompetence, they have instead decided that 'we' are the problem. Well, we will soon prove them right. I am sick (no pun intended!) of being made the fall guy for their utter lack of ability and responsibility. They have now thrown down the gauntlet. We need to do the following: 1) develop a strategy that works WITHIN their new guidelines, but at the same time buries them in bureaucracy and procedure (ie: all book off sick within the guidelines, overwhelm their ability to manage. Further,they won't be able to victimize a single individual). 2) a dedicated commitment to ALL stopping work if anyone is fired, until they are back at work. 3) a heavy PR campaign, highlighting to the press, the public and the regulators that they are now GUARANTEEING unfit crew operating civil aircraft. 4) a direct AOA appeal to the FAA, CAA and other first world regulators to warn them that CX is now embarking on a program that is assuring of unsafe aircraft operating in their airspace. 4) a dedicated and renewed emphasis on assuring that our own members are not aiding the enemy. We must immediately cancel the GFBA. AT has now shown that her intent is mendacious and career threatening. There has never been a more vivid example in the industry of a management who is less deserving of cooperation and assistance than this one. I have never been more disgusted than I am now.

[Soul planet]

+1 on point #3!
Who isn't scared of the media? The one time I remember a local celebrity missed his flight, he called up the media and they were all filming at the kitty counter. Forgot if it's kitty or Dragon. From sorry you missed your flight you late your fault. To refunding them couple thousands on the spot! Yes of course show the cameras! It was a few years ago correct me if my memory is wrong. But media is a pretty scary thing! Save your "face"!

[rick.shaw]

Mendacious

Quote:

".... mendacious and career threatening. There has never been a more vivid example in the industry of a management who is less deserving of cooperation and assistance than this one. I have never been more disgusted than I am now."

Mendacious - a new word for me. But very fitting in this context.

The above sums up my feelings about this whole situation that has been created by, for starters, inept management of crewing levels.

The disturbingly intimidatory nature of this latest 'program' is quite beyond belief.

[CCA]

Mendacious

adjective

not telling the truth; lying.
"mendacious propaganda"

synonyms: lying, untruthful, dishonest, deceitful, false, dissembling, insincere, disingenuous, hypocritical, fraudulent, double-dealing, two-faced, Janus-faced, two-timing, duplicitous, cathay pacific, perjured, perfidious; untrue, fictitious, falsified, fabricated, fallacious, invented, made up, hollow; humorouseconomical with the truth, terminologically inexact; rareunveracious
"mendacious propaganda"

[Sam Ting Wong]

I told you guys from the start CC would be disadvantageous and not achieve anything.

I got mobbed, insulted, even got PM hate mails for my judgement.

You guys said the wheels are going to fall off, training will bring them to their knees, etc etc.

Now, what. Where are we today??

Or to speak as a politician, are we better off now or before CC?

PS Won't post anymore, no worries. You can pat each others back for as long as you like, tell each other the end is neigh, etc etc, I won't get involved, I gave up long time ago.

[betpump5]

Indeed you did. Both here and on the AOA forum - countless times. And always with an ending sentence along the lines of "yet I still wear my Red Lanyard and never work a G Day".

What was always lacking however from your posts was an alternative solution.

[Progress Wanchai]

Sam Ting Wong,

Relax.

This is the same playbook that swire used at KA when they were in CC.
Right up until RH walked over the road and handed them the RP's they were after.

Just like "sign or be fired" - no one fired
"This is our best and final pay offer" - 3 months later a better offer.
"None of the 49ers will be re-hired" - about half were offered a job.

They spread the rumor they are tough and don't back down but their history is the opposite.

We're in it for the long game. AT only gets a year or 2 to prove herself before joining PC as a real estate agent.
Follow the GMO's advise.
Relax, wave and smile.

[Shep69]

Let me submit that if you allow this 'new' policy to modify your behavior or use it as a decision making factor that I think you are doing something wrong.

Or have been doing something wrong.

IF you're going to do this job long term, one of the first rules is to take care of yourself and your family. While there potentially was some backstop in terms of the company and RPs/fatigue management (and involvement as a player in the 'team') in the days of yore, IMHO this notably has changed as of the last couple of years and is not there anymore. While it might be there again in the future, it obviously isn't the case now. So the bottom line is you are your own advocate.

Don't let this job kill you.

Or steal your life a little bit at a time. It's supposed to be fun.

A lot depends on how this thing is implemented. Most of us are simply guessing based on past experiences and conditions; it is a different ball game today. There are those of us who might think things here haven't changed in terms of philosophy, but things elsewhere have. Many of us are talented, motivated and successful individuals. These talents don't go away, and can be used elsewhere and at other things if need be. A little bit of money is a wretched thing to compromise one's life over. And one never gets the time back lost in making bad decisions over what is important in life.

IF a heavy-handed approach is made, even absent CAD assistance, there are plenty of OTHER regulatory agencies in other venues where CX operates which can force the hand; in many different ways (at least if CX wants to operate in their airspace or nation). Some of these wield some pretty big sticks. As do those who would adjudicate misdeeds in medical privacy or employer medical accommodation.

And I'm sure the CAD is aware of this as well. If I were them I sure wouldn't want my counterparts from other jurisdictions ringing me up asking me what the problem is.

AND if I were a doctor of any kind, I'd certainly have some serious reservations about taking any action I knew might be questionable or might come back at me.

AND there's a pretty good paper trail behind the goings on over the last few years.

SO

Don't fret, keep doing what you're doing and take the 'here to help' at face value. If the incoherent rostering is breaking you fitness wise, take time off and get fixed to the extent you need to. If things are working for you press on; if you need help get help. Don't let a bunch of bean counter numbers or made up 'criteria' influence decisions on how YOU are doing and whether YOU are fit, unfit, fatigued, or unfatigued. The numbers made up are simply that--made up numbers. Has anyone consulted you or any of the subject matter experts anywhere to get them ? No. Has anyone really incorporated any suggestions by the operators or real experts into how to restructure RPs to mitigate fatigue and preserve long term health while also accomplishing the mission -- which goes hand in hand (or do we even HAVE RPs) ? No. Have we obtained more resources to address a resource-limited process ? No. Has anyone looked at--and more importantly acted upon--real solutions to real problems which could make rostering more efficient -- and at the same time improve the long term quality of life for those being rostered (there's absolutely no sin in being adamant about quality of life as well in that it's a win-win for everyone in the long run) ? No. Just words, pie-in-the-sky platitudes, pot o' gold 'systems' in the future more elusive than the leprechauns who apparently developed them, placing blame, and rationalization rather than action.

So why would anyone lend any validity to them ? Would you place much validity in the opinion of a doctor who told you not to worry about treating a curable cancer and to simply watch more TV, read more magazines, think happy thoughts, and take more aspirin ? Or that there's really nothing wrong with smoking a few packs a day so long as you smoke Marlboro lights and keep a log of how many cigarettes you smoke ?

The bottom line is keep doing what you're doing, take care of yourself, fly when fit, don't fly when unfit/fatigued, and as the song goes take it easy.

[Killaroo]

As a matter of interest - most Docs in HKG baulk at writing sick notes in excess of 3 days. Unless you have a leg hanging off, obviously.

So wtf do you get a 7 day sick note?

[betpump5]

ML at CX City. Unfortunately it will end up being a 7 Month sick note and loss of medical if your nostril hairs are too long.

[Captain Dart]

Sam, the fact that you check and train pilots who are on lesser conditions than your own, contributing to the deterioration of this industry, indicates where your loyalties lie. So, just go on training your cheap replacements. I'm sure that you have bills to pay.

A sickness management program has been 'done' by this lot before, and it didn't work last time. It's no big deal. I suggest that you read Curtain Rod's post #22. Also, I too wait to hear what you have as an alternative plan of action.

And of the large number of check and trainers who signed 'The Letter', why are they still voluntarily part of the system months after their bluff has been called by management?

[betpump5]

And of the large number of check and trainers who signed 'The Letter', why are they still voluntarily part of the system after their bluff has been called by management?

Thats the question we all want to know. However I fear the silence will deafen us all.

[cxorcist]

All the trainers are too busy protecting what is left of their "good deal" to promote the greater good. So what happens when there is nothing left? Who protects you? What will be left to protect? Nobody and Nothing! You think all those new guys you are training will fight for you? Hahaha...

[blade]

Guys/gals you only need a sickness cert after 3 days .So you call sick for 3 days ,then rock up to the DR on day 4 and then get a certificate for remaining days you need.

The Dr doesn't need to know anything about your first few days off if you are worried .

This self certification for 3 days then Drs note for 4 days gives you your standard week off.

Enjoy

[Soul planet]

[OK4Wire]

A lot of good ideas here, but I think ron burgandy has nailed it.

The best way forward would be for everyone permanently to be in Stage 1.

5 in 12 or 6 in 15 months. And never accept an "interview" without it being put on your roster.