Staff Travel Change

[mngmt mole]

No, it will mainly have consequences for CX management, when the 'sickness' rate rises even further due to people deciding that they just can't be bothered worrying whether or not they get on a flight back to HK after leave/time off etc. Instead, they will just decide the 'stress' is a bit too much and give themselves another week or two off.

[ACMS]

I'd be interested to know which Airlines out there in the same situation give the subsidiary company employees DOJ staff travel on the same priority?

I sure Qantas doesn't give Jetstar employees the same priority on QF and they are 100% part of the "Qantas Group"

Where exactly is this precedence you KA people use as an excuse to make you feel better?

Because if you can show me with facts that this is the normal procedure that is followed around the world by most legacy career Airlines then I'll back off a bit.

We have NOT merged the two Airlines yet.

[Mill Worker]

ACMS, you are correct. Some JQ employees get a better priority on QF than QF employee. Sad but true.

[Toruk Macto]

Qantas gave Qlink same priority in late 90's . Qantas employee's where getting priority on Qlink at the time so slightly different but it happened overnight with out consultation . Purely DOJ on any class .

[asianeagle]

A quick calculation on FOC tickets. 3000 KA staff, 1-3 dependants each (say average of 2), times 4 FOC sectors per year. Equals 36000 FOC tickets per year. That will have serious adverse consequences for many, many people.

Whats an FOC????

I can't remember when I actually had a FOC confirmed and actually flown in the class I was entitled to.
Is this really a loss because of the integration or was it lost long ago??

[swh]

KA staff whose jobs are little changed and nor have their promotional avenues altered from where we sit were given a DOJ staff travel. You never uttered a protest.

You are still missing the point, they are not KA staff, they are ex-KA staff that are now CX staff and are ENTITLED to CX benefits like other CX staff. There is also ex-KA staff at HK Airlines, that does not give current KA staff any implied rights to any benefit at HK Airlines.

As for "nor have their promotional avenues altered" what a load of bullocks, tell that to all the people that were let go. The ex-KA staff are not treated any different to other CX employees, be it ex-KA staff that work in the office, as cabin crew, or as pilots.

KA staff get treated differently, they are employed under different conditions of service because they are not CX staff. I would love to have an extra months leave a year (10 vs 6 weeks), less hours per month, being paid for delays, less night flying etc etc.

Did the DPA threaten to go into CC over Pri 25 on CX or not?

Absolute silence over that.

[Dan Winterland]

It will also be interesting to see what the greatest union in CX has to say with this demoralizing change....the FAU and not AOA ofcourse.

Of the 29 JS requests I have approved this month, the demographics are as follows.

1 KA pilot.
2 KA cabin crew.
4 CX managers (not directly working for KA)
1 CX pilot.
21 CX cabin crew.

From these statistics, I deduce that that the largest section of the CX group employees will be fairly happy having equal priority across the group and will therefore, probably not be demoralised.

[tsimbeit]

The 1993 L1011 saga

In 1993 we agreed that the KA pilots must not fly the L-1011, did anyone listen, anything learnt?

[2 cents]

This argument about how many jumpseat requests you have from CX staff is completely irrelevant. I doubt you get a huge jumpseat demand for Fuzhou, Chongqing, or Wuhan, so the flights you are probably quoting are PEN and HKT. And if your jumpseat requests indicate relative CX/KA demand on these sectors, so what? What's your point? If the vast majority of standby pax are CX staff anyway, this "new" travel scheme won't improve anything for them.

[JY9024]

Jet Star / QantasLink etc are all part of the Qantas Group staff travel and all have DOJ with regards to priority on qantas group a/c. In others words, A Dash 8 captain who was employed by Sunstate back in the 80's will have priority over a Qantas captain who joined in the 90's. They all have separate AOC's.
I believe this is industry standard in mergers like this. It just should of happened at the same time they merged the office staff and freighter pilots and not ten years latter.
I do though have to agree that this is a disadvantage to some CX staff and I feel for those who are commuters who have no interest in KA's network. It is a win for the staff that live within our network who regularly apply for the JS.

[GMEDX]

2016 A350 Saga

tsimbeit. Next you'll be saying KA pilots must not fly the A350. Incredible!

[tsimbeit]

Originally Posted by GMEDX

tsimbeit. Next you'll be saying KA pilots must not fly the A350. Incredible!

That's how the CX members voted in 1993, unbelievable!

Nobody listened to the pilots or cabin crew when it came to running the organisation that time either.

Move on!

We are all working for Cathay now, one happy family!

[Lowkoon]

Scavenge pump, I rest my case on the donkey reference, continue to play the man not the ball if you must.

The DPA motion was to allow the Chairman to call CC, so no technically you are incorrect. 5 items of concern were tabled, one of those was the delay in improvements offered over two years ago and not implemented.

As for the boot on the other foot, the deal is reciprocal.

The others are correct, Jetstar gets DOJ on QF.

[Soul planet]

com'on guys, respect the dragon

[CYRILJGROOVE]

The fact is the more KA gets into the CX web of gross mismanagement the worse off the KA staff will be. How long do you think the office wallers will allow 10 weeks leave to remain, all the trimmings will be taken away to line the pockets of the managers meeting their budgets, KPI's and general glee in sticking it to staff.

Rostering agreements will be torn up, sign or be fired is an old chestnut, oh and we have lost confidence in you is another oldie but goodie. You will be immersed in the horrible CX rostering chaos with all its downside.

Any thing they don't like and can take from you they will, with no second thought. At least some CX pilots have first world protections in in some juristictions

In Hong Kong we have to rely on policy that can be amended from time to time hence allowing the staff travel back door shafting of CX staff with little legal recourse.

Pandora's box ??

[scavengepump]

lowkoon et al -

You can spin your argument any which way you like, but deep down you know this is wrong. The DPA however, pushed and pushed until they got what they wanted.

Don't muddy the debate with the old CX 'divide and conquer' line.

I wouldn't normally wish any ill on another pilot group, in this case I do.

Mark my words, you will get your shafting from management in due course, and I
for one will not shed a tear.

[Lowkoon]

Oh we know its coming, why do you think the offer is for 12 months time, not for now? It is simple, it is so they can threaten to remove the carrot at will over a time where they have bigger plans.

The answer is in all the posts previous. Have you or anyone else ever worked for a company that has NO aircraft orders, and is adding NO new destinations, and NO ONE is leaving, yet the time to command is 18 months or less? Odd isn't it? Something in the wind right? And why are they adding training captains at a similarly impressive rate with no growth plans? Starting to ring alarm bells yet?

Want me to spell it out further? Is there another pilot body in the 'group' that is in desperate need of Airbus training? Need a hint? Ok, so when would the KA group support your industrial action? If we were both in CC and cooperating maybe? When would the pilot body not support your actions? When we are excluded from the 'Group' perhaps, or even better for the company, when we are squabbling over something relatively inconsequential manufactured by the management? Starting to get the idea I hope? If it wasnt a managed event, why dont they just give us priority 25 now? The answer is simple, so they can threaten to take it away, when dealing with us, or offer to remove it when dealing with you. It has a lot more value to them now, in a period when they are expecting a fight.

The timing is remarkable as we touched on earlier, but go for it, keep hating on the donkey, its exactly what they want.

What is the bet KA is now approached to do CX upgrade training officially now, once the divide between us has artificially widened? While you are at it ask your QF mates whether they wish they had the JQ guys onside or offside from the start, particularly when it came to the 787 introduction? Plenty of precedence for it if you care to look.

[scavengepump]

With that long winded piece you've just confirmed my point in my previous post.
And by the way, this change is not 'inconsequential' to myself or my colleagues! How dare you!

[Gnadenburg]

You are still missing the point, they are not KA staff, they are ex-KA staff that are now CX staff and are ENTITLED to CX benefits like other CX staff. There is also ex-KA staff at HK Airlines, that does not give current KA staff any implied rights to any benefit at HK Airlines.

Sorry. You've missed the point. Let's work backwards from an answer.

Ex-KA staff for admin synergies were integrated into CX with staff travel benefits based on their KA date of joining. Pilots too(?). So you said nothing when a swagger of admin, managers and pilots were given staff travel benefits based on dates of joining back to 1985?

You've been around long enough to know this is a contrast of principles.


scavengepump

It's easy to bring your best mettle out when attacking pilots. It's not just the "spiky haired brigade" now you can blame your woes on another group. KA pilots are getting shafted. Tabled at the EGM were five issues.

Can I ask why you said nothing when KA pilots and office staff who opted to "join" CX for admin synergies brought along DOJ back to 1985?

.

[Soul planet]