Exhausted Pilots

[alohajec]

A.T. The cat is out of the bag and the title of the article says it all. You can do something about this.

Exhausted pilots tell Cathay Pacific their growing workloads are a threat to flight safety | South China Morning Post

[Yonosoy Marinero]

Interesting that the article failed to mention one of the three salient points of the letter, namely, the decreasing level of experience in the cockpit.

[Kid Dynamite]

And, of course, the constant deterioration of our Conditions of Service.

[IDS]

Thats where a comment of the AOA is required.

[asianeagle]

Thats where a comment of the AOA is required.

The fact that the AOA declined to comment has taken the wind completely out the sails.... what were they thinking??

Should have been a massive endorsement!!

"We are our own worst enemy's" as they say

[Lowkoon]

United front

Wouldn't it have been better to support the C&T letter, "Although we did not write the letter, we agree with its content and share the safety concerns that the senior check and training pilots voiced to CX management." Not "We didn't write it, no comment." A united front would have been a very strong message, 'opportunity lost'.

[iceman50]

Perhaps because the letter was supposed to NON industrial!

[Arfur Dent]

Absolutely agree with Lowkoon and Eagle!
For God's sake get a grip AOA and stop treading on eggshells! YOU SHARE THE CONCERNS OF THE TRAINING DEPARTMENT.
Don't you???
Please!

[Anotherday]

Arfur et al,

I'm assuming some of those who signed aren't in the AOA so it would be a bit stupid for the Association to get behind members and non members alike wouldn't it? Why would any of us bother paying our dues if we're going to get AOA support anyway.

Perhaps you didn't think that one through.

[Trafalgar]

I have to admit to complete confusion as to the AOA's response. Surely a statement saying that although it was an independent submission, the AOA fully supported the concerns raised would have been appropriate. Also, there should have been an emphasis placed on the other issue, that of the significantly compromised levels of experience now evident throughout the airline. Although I am a strong supporter of the AOA, I need a convincing explanation as to the weak response, and sadly, missed opportunity to drive home our advantage.

[Adam Nams]

Comments

The cat may be out of the bag, but take a look at the comments attached to the article. Among a few that show support for your cause are these ones:


"If many of the Cathay Pacific pilots I know are representative, I am sure that if they cut back on their between-shift booze intake the issue of "exhaustion" would be reduced dramatically"


"The CAD regulations limit flying hours to 100 in any 28 day and 900 in any consecutive 12-month period. For transport aircraft operations, particularly with modern aircraft, that is not unduly onerous or excessive."


"Boo-****-hoo. These guys work 4 or 5 pilots on long-haul flights and the computer does 90% of the work. Meanwhile they live on fat expat packages and get blow jobs in the cockpit. They work one international flight and get crew rest for a week. Please."


"I wonder which American airline will be the first to dispense with all pilots in the cockpit? It will save a ton of money...
... the flying public really don't need temperamental humans in the cockpits risking their lives by flying into mountains or the sea because they have taken the wrong pills the night before. Emergencies could still be dealt with by hands-on humans hundreds of miles away from central control rooms. One control room with a few staff could remotely control an entire airline's fleet from take-off to landing. It has to happen sooner or later."


May I suggest that these are some of the great travelling public that you need to convince to get any sympathy. You need to get a public face and get the public on your side.


A letter to the editor would be a good start...

[Trafalgar]

May I suggest that the company has a group of 'letter writers' who immediately submit this dross to the papers to discredit us. I couldn't care less about such letters, but I DO care about the AOA not dealing with the press in an effective manner. Why is there no mention of the desperate lack of experience developing in the company, or a concise and effective explanation of the shambles of our rostering? Perhaps we need a professional PR group to be involved. All I know is that we seem to be missing a golden opportunity here.

[CX-HOR]

As soon as knowledge of this letter was posted on Prune the AOA would have known it would eventually leak to the Press and they would be asked for comment.

To have absolutely nothing to say because its not their letter just leaves me gobsmacked. I would have though having examples of fatigueing rostering and the other issues ready to go would have been the least they could have had prepared, oh there I go, preparation and AOA in the same sentence. Silly me.

[Sqwak7700]

You need to get a public face and get the public on your side.

Uh, no we don't. The majority of people are not very bright, they think planes fly due to magic. Let them hold their opinions as those opinions don't pay our salaries. No matter what safety concerns we might be facing in this airline, none of them show up on Expedia or Priceline when booking the lowest fare.

Any change we are pushing for will come from those in the industry (management, CAD, other regulators). The public is way out of their league, they just happened to get wind of an internal letter that was never meant for their comprehension.

It was meant for the record as a "I told you so", so that the people in charge will not be able to hide behind the "we didn't know it was this bad" excuse.

[raven11]

But then there were these three letters:

-I'm not sure how many people here are actually pilots of wide bodied commercial jets, judging from the comments I'd say hardly any! It's an interesting article and one which needs consideration. I wouldn't tell a fireman how to tackle a fire nor would I tell a doctor he is doing surgery wrong....so if almost 100 senior pilots with years of vast experience think this is a serious problem them I'm not going to tell them it's not!
Looking online the Cathay cadet scheme is open.....why don't the people here apply and do the job if it's so simple?
I will take the opinions of the professionals seriously; I suggest some others do the same!

-Do we Marco Polo members have anything to worry about, flight-safetywise ? Incidentally, it is reported that the pilots union is declining comment because it did not initiate the action. Is there some internal disagreements between the 100-odd signatories to the letter and the rest of the pilots in the union, and what is the total membership of the pilots union?
These are matters that the regular flying public who uses the World's favourite airline would want and deserve to be told, particularly when the union said "it had taken the lead to address the issue" thereby acknowledging that there is AN ISSUE.
This is too serious a matter not to be dealt with by a PUBLIC STATEMENT from the Carrier, and we do hope that the SCMP (Danny Lee) would keep an eye on this and update us till this is resolved.

-OK, my four flights year LHR-HKG will be on Virgin in future
Bye bye Cathay.

[goathead]

No one is listening to TheGreenDragon
Apparently this is possibly a HULL LOSS
It is that BAD
What is it going to take the AOA too open there eyes ?
What is it going to take for the public to OPEN there eyes ? Is not the (un?)controlled crash landing of a KA 330 in PEN not enough ?
Seriously
Anyway the checkers will just keep passing them , then they will be next in the block when the investigators come knocking.....

[Trafalgar]

...you are a piece of work Goathead....

[Michael Hunt]

Well if the 'cat is out of the bag' it has gone for a lie down and a bowl of milk rather than run around the room scratching the furniture and climbing the walls.
Haven't seen any response from Cathay, haven't seen car loads of CAD personnel showing up and demanding to see crew controls pilot records, no protests in the streets from angry Marco Polo members demanding that Cathay aircraft are crewed by pilots rather than teenagers with a Candy Crush addiction......... Nothing.
Sunday's SCMP article is now wrapping for fish heads.
Nothing to see here... Thank you bye bye.

[Dan Winterland]

OK, my four flights year LHR-HKG will be on Virgin in future
Bye bye Cathay.

You think VS pilots are any less tired? It's an industry problem.

DW (ex VS).

[Trafalgar]

...at least they have decent levels of experience, unlike our hundreds of "0" hour wonders...