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HKG to Guangzhou ATC handoff Question

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HKG to Guangzhou ATC handoff Question

Old 5th Jul 2015, 01:23
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HKG to Guangzhou ATC handoff Question

Question:

Does Guangzhou expect the 3 minute call ahead at BEKOL when taking off from HKG and entering their airspace? I don't regularly fly that way but the jeppesen enroute chart seems to indicate that it's required to call ahead to Guangzhou 3 minutes prior. We've been doing it anyway but Guangzhou always seem to be a bit miffed as to why we're calling.

Thanks.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 04:48
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I have never done it and I have never seen anybody do it.

You could call them 3 hours ahead and they'd still be as clueless...
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 05:48
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HK ATC have a direct line to Guangzhou so ZGGG ATC have all the required info long before you get there
The 3 min call is probably an obscure reference in the AIP but in practice no one does it and we have hundreds of flights per week going that way
The one thing Guangzhou seems to want these days with most first contact calls is your transponder code
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 08:36
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Like many of these things probably superseded by something like the invention of VHF ! ...... AIREP anyone !!
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 09:26
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Conversely the other way around HK will expect a 3 min prior call before Dotmi, Siera and Sikou. Am sure it's written somewhere! But as the previous guys said, Guangzhou don't seem to need it for Bekol.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 10:08
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Thanks, truth be told I have flown that way half a dozen times over the past 5 years and never called ahead after departing HKG, but flew with a captain the other day who insisted. He produced what I think (from memory) was the Jeppesen China H/L 1/2 IFR enroute chart, pointed to ball note "5" for BEKOL which in the chart margins states "contact next atc agency 3 minutes prior to crossing", without referencing specific frequencies on which to do so. Obviously we are aware of the call aheads inbound to HKG but those are more clearly annotated on the charts.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 11:27
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Strange how some people study the minute details hidden on the charts and then decide to 'reinvent the wheel' and catch others out. I have never seen or heard anyone ever calling 3 minutes from Bekol outbound to China/Europe. I have never heard Guangzhou even mentioning why they didn't. Mind you, I've only done the trip that way about 500 times or more. It's not required.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 12:23
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Sometimes, you just don't have time at that phase of the flight. Never done it, never heard it done - and didn't know you had to!
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 12:50
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I've done it approaching Siera for 26 yrs Dan!!!
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 13:00
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Hong Kong negotiate your slot time at Bekol before you takeoff. No need to call.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 14:44
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I've done it approaching Siera for 26 yrs Dan!!!
I've called HKG approaching SIERA for 15 years. But never called Guangzhou going North through BEKOL - which was the OP's question.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 16:35
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The question was nothing to do with calling HKG approaching Siera! Everybody does that. RTFQ!!
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 18:06
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The requirement is still in the CAAC AIP

4.8 In order to facilitate radar identification and air traffic control, aircraft shall establish contact with the next ATC unit at least 3 minutes prior to crossing such transfer of control points as BEKOL, TAMOT, SIERA and SIKOU.

There is also a requirement to have established contact before entering Chinese airspace.

Practically HKATC will do the ATC hand off by phone, so China will want to radar identify. HKG will transfer you well before the waypoint.
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Old 5th Jul 2015, 19:19
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My mistake, I thought this thread was now including siera
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