Such Pussies
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Show me the law firm or doctor's office that has 3,000 lawyers/doctors and I'll listen to your down with seniority argument.
In the US:
1 - Baker and McKenzie Chicago 3,779
2 - DLA Piper Chicago 3,452
3 - Jones Day Washington 2,517
4 - Hogan Lovells Washington 2,344
5 - Latham and Watkins New York 2,008
The NHS employs 109,000 doctors.
In the US:
1 - Baker and McKenzie Chicago 3,779
2 - DLA Piper Chicago 3,452
3 - Jones Day Washington 2,517
4 - Hogan Lovells Washington 2,344
5 - Latham and Watkins New York 2,008
The NHS employs 109,000 doctors.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: now a paxdoggiedog too...
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, poor analogy
We already tried the no seniority upgrade approach with freighter commands. Anyone in the company could do a freighter command, no seniority there but you took a 50% pay cut to do it.
The real cruncher, though, was that you started accumulating command paypoints immediately, so if you were an FCN for say six years before becoming eligible for pax command, you then slid directly over to B-scale command year six. Do the math. Financially, a no-brainer if you were always planning to stay on a base.
The downsides were the high fail rate on the course, and subsequent crap rostering, but in exchange for much more money over the course of your career and a command directly on a base. And if the guys who did not go for it are honest with themselves, usually it was because of the previously mentioned drawbacks or because they preferred to come to HKG and start collecting houses (and good for them).
But the most important aspect, as pointed out by Silberfuchs, is that freighter commands were AOA instigated and sanctioned (for something like ten years). Far from being banned, they were our union's idea, whether some folks liked it or not.
Accepting a training position right now is precisely the opposite.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freehills-
Those attorneys/docotrs have specialties. NHS has many doctors, but they are not all General Practice doctors. While I appreciate your numbers, I don't believe them to be an accurate reflection of our profession.
We have 3 ranks within our 3,000: CN, FO, SO. Four if you include check and training, that's it. Attorneys/doctors have many more catagories within their fields, which provides multiple iterations.
The first firm you listed practices 13 different fields of law. Within each of those fields are many different aeas that requires specialized attention. We just don't have that structure.
Those attorneys/docotrs have specialties. NHS has many doctors, but they are not all General Practice doctors. While I appreciate your numbers, I don't believe them to be an accurate reflection of our profession.
We have 3 ranks within our 3,000: CN, FO, SO. Four if you include check and training, that's it. Attorneys/doctors have many more catagories within their fields, which provides multiple iterations.
The first firm you listed practices 13 different fields of law. Within each of those fields are many different aeas that requires specialized attention. We just don't have that structure.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freightdoggiedog Silberfuchs
They took a job that was paying less because they put their own selfish wants ahead of the greater good of the pilot group at CX. There wouldn't even be a Freighter pay scale if no one had taken it. I've already heard all the bs reasons why guys were 'forced' to take a command before their number came up.
And now with reduced freighters and the slow death of the 744 fleet the whole thing is turning into a goat f*ck with massive overmanning on bases.
Is their moral compass going to send them back to Hong Kong since I doubt any of them are senior enough to hold a pax command on a base anywhere?
As usual the pilot group only does what's best for them. Anyone who doesn't want to be a trainer thinks the ban is a great idea, anyone who got into training 3 months ago is laughing their head off.
They took a job that was paying less because they put their own selfish wants ahead of the greater good of the pilot group at CX. There wouldn't even be a Freighter pay scale if no one had taken it. I've already heard all the bs reasons why guys were 'forced' to take a command before their number came up.
And now with reduced freighters and the slow death of the 744 fleet the whole thing is turning into a goat f*ck with massive overmanning on bases.
Is their moral compass going to send them back to Hong Kong since I doubt any of them are senior enough to hold a pax command on a base anywhere?
As usual the pilot group only does what's best for them. Anyone who doesn't want to be a trainer thinks the ban is a great idea, anyone who got into training 3 months ago is laughing their head off.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Billy, this is like arguing with my 5 yr old.
So the RHS qual for freighter 744 line captains is because we're undermanned and not because we need to put them into any seat to get enough productivity out of them?
Good one.
Freighter commands were a bad idea, they've weakened our COS. End of story.
So the RHS qual for freighter 744 line captains is because we're undermanned and not because we need to put them into any seat to get enough productivity out of them?
Good one.
Freighter commands were a bad idea, they've weakened our COS. End of story.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's your justification!? RHS Captains? 
I work 20 days per month now at more than 90 hours. That's the first time I've consistently done that on this fleet. Contract Compliance is the reason of course. Er go, we are short of crews because we have stopped helping the company underman this operation.
Recall the conversation said to be had between a certain Boeing Chief Pilot and the then CEO regarding 777-300ER deliveries. "Where would you like me to park them because we have no pilots to fly them." That was years ago and CC has only exacerbated that reality.
Who will fly the 350's?
I work 20 days per month now at more than 90 hours. That's the first time I've consistently done that on this fleet. Contract Compliance is the reason of course. Er go, we are short of crews because we have stopped helping the company underman this operation.
Recall the conversation said to be had between a certain Boeing Chief Pilot and the then CEO regarding 777-300ER deliveries. "Where would you like me to park them because we have no pilots to fly them." That was years ago and CC has only exacerbated that reality.
Who will fly the 350's?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: now a paxdoggiedog too...
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freight doggie, arguing with you is like talking to an alcoholic about drinking. Re-read your nonsense sometime when you aren't busy looking at yourself in the mirror and drooling.
The analogy you and others have made is misleading because, once again, whether you personally agreed with it or not (drum roll please), freighter commands weren't just accepted by our union, they were AOA-proposed and sanctioned.
It's tempting to blame the next guy for our problems, blame the current cadets for joining on HKPA and undermining our housing, or guys from joining on B-scale and undermining A-scalers, or based guys for taking bases and undermining our unity as Hong Kong-based crew, but the only way you can really draw the line as to what can and can't be legitimately done is through our union, democratically. Propose a motion, get it seconded and voted on. Otherwise, it just remains your opinion.
I used to dislike finding out that the guy or gal sitting next to me had been called out on a G-day as I have always disagreed with the practice, but I would keep my mouth shut as it was his/her prerogative. Now that we are in CC, it's unacceptable.
Just one drunken doggie's opinion, sorry for the drool on the keyboard
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: home
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back to the pussy theme.....
Aside from whinging on pprune here are a couple of suggestions.
Make an appointment to see the DFO and tell her face-to-face how you feel. Some have done this, including me. Imagine 2,000 pilots doing so at 30 mins per chat. Best part of 6 months to get through that lot.
Yammer is quite rightly treated with a degree of cynicism. However, there are a growing number of people who are using the medium to let the powers-that-be know how crap things are at the coal face. You will obviously have to be civil, but serious points are being made that have to be read by our masters. You'd be surprised at the number of "likes" posts get, and by senior names too. You want to be heard? Go there. I'm sure you're not deluded enough to think that our betters spend their time here. Yammer is a company communication tool, use it. Imagine 2,000 pilots each posting to the FOP group each time they are messed around, RPs are abused/misinterpreted, breakfast allowance deducted post-delay etc. Could easily be thousands of posts per month.
Alternatively you could be an anonymous, big-man, big-mouth, internet hero. Just like I'm being now
Aside from whinging on pprune here are a couple of suggestions.
Make an appointment to see the DFO and tell her face-to-face how you feel. Some have done this, including me. Imagine 2,000 pilots doing so at 30 mins per chat. Best part of 6 months to get through that lot.
Yammer is quite rightly treated with a degree of cynicism. However, there are a growing number of people who are using the medium to let the powers-that-be know how crap things are at the coal face. You will obviously have to be civil, but serious points are being made that have to be read by our masters. You'd be surprised at the number of "likes" posts get, and by senior names too. You want to be heard? Go there. I'm sure you're not deluded enough to think that our betters spend their time here. Yammer is a company communication tool, use it. Imagine 2,000 pilots each posting to the FOP group each time they are messed around, RPs are abused/misinterpreted, breakfast allowance deducted post-delay etc. Could easily be thousands of posts per month.
Alternatively you could be an anonymous, big-man, big-mouth, internet hero. Just like I'm being now
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Retired-ville
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't have time to Blabber, Twatter, Jabber, yamma etc, and quite surprisingly, the sun still comes up the next morning.
Hats off to those with time to waste reading propaganda.
Props to those taking the time to let the company know how badly many things are being Mis-handled.
If they want us to know important information, I'll happily wait until it comes through one of the many assorted official channels.
Hats off to those with time to waste reading propaganda.
Props to those taking the time to let the company know how badly many things are being Mis-handled.
If they want us to know important information, I'll happily wait until it comes through one of the many assorted official channels.
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A tad more than 3 posts per month? Not overly significant, is it?
And besides, the point is that's his leisure time; not a mandated, measured and required event that would be conducted for the company's benefit on equipment provided privately.
It's like saying the mandated AEP lunch is no big deal, after all, we need to eat!
And besides, the point is that's his leisure time; not a mandated, measured and required event that would be conducted for the company's benefit on equipment provided privately.
It's like saying the mandated AEP lunch is no big deal, after all, we need to eat!