S/O night with dfo
Before the days of the 'Same team - same dream" bollocks we, the Aircrew, did all feel highly regarded and very involved in how the Airline was organised and Managed. "Commercial Orientation Days" where Senior Execs from Airline Planning, finance, Engineering etc would give presentations to a fascinated and motivated audience who would gladly attend on G days. The DFO would organise parties held in his house to which all would be invited on a First Come- type basis. Great place for what is now called 'networking' and thoroughly enjoyable.
Then the 'geniuses' came along and we have what we have now. Well done one and all - you had Millions/Billions of HKD-worth of Good will in the 'Bank' and you pissed the whole lot away inside one generation.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Good luck to the DFO if she's trying to reinvent the wheel - it's about time.
Then the 'geniuses' came along and we have what we have now. Well done one and all - you had Millions/Billions of HKD-worth of Good will in the 'Bank' and you pissed the whole lot away inside one generation.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Good luck to the DFO if she's trying to reinvent the wheel - it's about time.
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Remembering when.
Arfur, Do you remember those "Commitment Days" and the wonderful Wimbledon tennis match analogy by PLS.
The whole point seemed to be to humiliate the aircrew in front of the rest of the staff - those oblique pictures of the operating cost pie charts, whereby a 22% of costs took up 80 % of the chart.
I can't remember the year, but the tide was turning then.
The whole point seemed to be to humiliate the aircrew in front of the rest of the staff - those oblique pictures of the operating cost pie charts, whereby a 22% of costs took up 80 % of the chart.
I can't remember the year, but the tide was turning then.
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Lots of complaining and reminiscing
None of the above answers my questions.......whine whine whine
Only reply if you know something.
Geeeez, soap box central here
Only reply if you know something.
Geeeez, soap box central here
I rest my case Mr Cowardly ( if not a stooge - why would you call yourself that??)
Anyway, ignoring him - the "Commercial Orientation" days became " Commitment Days". Who was the architect of that change? It was akin to the most fundamental betrayal and, because we were happy, well paid and naive, we didn't see it at all for what it was. Corporate cowardice on a grand scale and not one of the incumbent FOPS Managers did anything to stop it. It's exactly the same as turning on and attacking your family when they think you're actually a loving parent.
Do I overstate the case? Only those of us who were there can judge. The rest of you have to live the 'dream'.
Anyway, ignoring him - the "Commercial Orientation" days became " Commitment Days". Who was the architect of that change? It was akin to the most fundamental betrayal and, because we were happy, well paid and naive, we didn't see it at all for what it was. Corporate cowardice on a grand scale and not one of the incumbent FOPS Managers did anything to stop it. It's exactly the same as turning on and attacking your family when they think you're actually a loving parent.
Do I overstate the case? Only those of us who were there can judge. The rest of you have to live the 'dream'.
Last edited by Arfur Dent; 14th May 2015 at 23:35. Reason: Stupid intervention
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Arfur
Bit of a cheek to "never mind him" the thread starter when you are hijacking his thread. If you had wanted to moan about commitment days back in the day then YOU should have started your own thread!
Bit of a cheek to "never mind him" the thread starter when you are hijacking his thread. If you had wanted to moan about commitment days back in the day then YOU should have started your own thread!
Fair point Iceman but my comments were related to his thread and he is quite rude to attack me. If you don't want moaning and hijacks you shouldn't come on PPrune. Anyway, enough from me but the S/O's are hardly queueing up to answer his question either so...............
Ahh yes, the 'Commitment Days'. All crew taken off the roster in rotation and harangued in the Kai Tak auditorium about how 'bad' things were. Early nineties under Red Oddington's and G C's watch I think. The start of the inexorable decline in morale and working conditions at this airline.
Regarding the original topic: maybe very few went? Personally, I would not have touched it with a barge pole that had a French letter on the end.
Regarding the original topic: maybe very few went? Personally, I would not have touched it with a barge pole that had a French letter on the end.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 15th May 2015 at 07:44.
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No matter how hard you try....
Thank you Arfur for your response, and Captain Dart too.
I am well out of it now and enjoying my stress free retirement.
Of course, we didn't have gob****es in our day, Aaaah, those were the days!
Good luck to Cowardly Pilot and his ilk.
Sometimes people just make it difficult to be sympathetic.
I am well out of it now and enjoying my stress free retirement.
Of course, we didn't have gob****es in our day, Aaaah, those were the days!
Good luck to Cowardly Pilot and his ilk.
Sometimes people just make it difficult to be sympathetic.
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New joiners will never get Housing and the career is for a single pilot - don't expect enough to have a good life with wife and kids. DFO didn't seem too concerned to be told many were planning on leaving.
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Curtain Rod has hit the nail on the head.
The plain cold hard fact of the matter is that there are thousands and thousands of people who would be happy to work for this company as a pilot.
If, as has been mentioned, the DFO is unconcerned with the idea that pilots will be leaving, then look at it from their shoes.
1 - This is the standard response from management to any employee under them. Leave, ok, if you must, as we have thousands and thousands of people who would like to fill your position. It's like any relationship for that matter....
It's not like the position is now highly specialised and requires years of experience. Sure we need the aptitude to gain a licence, pass the training and sims once arrived in HK, but truthfully, what special service do we provide as entry level pilots?
The Captain is always right, and has loads of experience and years in the company.
The F/O, well, is the F/O, here to catch the errors that the Capt could miss.
And the S/O, being hardworking, with a positive attitude, holding a licence, and obviously intelligent enough to pass the selection process, is one step removed from the next carbon copy of himself, which has been compounded by the fact that the flying experience required to replace him/her is minimal.
2 - The only time they will change their thinking is if many people resign each month, and it starts to cost them money, or we have the courage to join the FAU and be on the evening news. Our local pilots would need to take a lead role in this, as a bunch of foreigners, even though some of us have spent as long as 25 years in HK, protesting for better working conditions, while causing disruptions to the travelling public, is optically a disaster.
The effect this has on the staff can be seen in the not so recent survey. The constant, never-ending reductions in respect, allowances, benefits, wage growth, layovers, RPs, FTLs, and even profit share, has a huge toll on job satisfaction. We all wonder what is next?
One of the few remaining work related positives I see are an uneventful trip, with a good crew, to one of the few remaining decent layovers, eating a nice lunch and having a good sleep.
The plain cold hard fact of the matter is that there are thousands and thousands of people who would be happy to work for this company as a pilot.
If, as has been mentioned, the DFO is unconcerned with the idea that pilots will be leaving, then look at it from their shoes.
1 - This is the standard response from management to any employee under them. Leave, ok, if you must, as we have thousands and thousands of people who would like to fill your position. It's like any relationship for that matter....
It's not like the position is now highly specialised and requires years of experience. Sure we need the aptitude to gain a licence, pass the training and sims once arrived in HK, but truthfully, what special service do we provide as entry level pilots?
The Captain is always right, and has loads of experience and years in the company.
The F/O, well, is the F/O, here to catch the errors that the Capt could miss.
And the S/O, being hardworking, with a positive attitude, holding a licence, and obviously intelligent enough to pass the selection process, is one step removed from the next carbon copy of himself, which has been compounded by the fact that the flying experience required to replace him/her is minimal.
2 - The only time they will change their thinking is if many people resign each month, and it starts to cost them money, or we have the courage to join the FAU and be on the evening news. Our local pilots would need to take a lead role in this, as a bunch of foreigners, even though some of us have spent as long as 25 years in HK, protesting for better working conditions, while causing disruptions to the travelling public, is optically a disaster.
The effect this has on the staff can be seen in the not so recent survey. The constant, never-ending reductions in respect, allowances, benefits, wage growth, layovers, RPs, FTLs, and even profit share, has a huge toll on job satisfaction. We all wonder what is next?
One of the few remaining work related positives I see are an uneventful trip, with a good crew, to one of the few remaining decent layovers, eating a nice lunch and having a good sleep.
''One of the few remaining work related positives I see are an uneventful trip, with a good crew, to one of the few remaining decent layovers, eating a nice lunch and having a good sleep.''
Apart from good crews obviously not a description for the airbus
The Captain is always right, and has loads of experience and years in the company.
The F/O, well, is the F/O, here to catch the errors that the Capt could miss.
And there is where the problems lies in a few years where the skipper resting on his/her 3 man long haul to Europe will have low hour, un motivated FO/SO up the front with minimal experience and never been exposed to a training regime which does not address many important aspects of the job due to the LEAN measure taken in the company.
These Captains of years of experience wont be here forever and the level of experience bought into the company is falling every single day
Apart from good crews obviously not a description for the airbus
The Captain is always right, and has loads of experience and years in the company.
The F/O, well, is the F/O, here to catch the errors that the Capt could miss.
And there is where the problems lies in a few years where the skipper resting on his/her 3 man long haul to Europe will have low hour, un motivated FO/SO up the front with minimal experience and never been exposed to a training regime which does not address many important aspects of the job due to the LEAN measure taken in the company.
These Captains of years of experience wont be here forever and the level of experience bought into the company is falling every single day
