CX Pilot arrested at Heathrow for possession of knives

[iceman50]

Trossie

I should have been more specific on the regulations, the UK was well ahead, as well as some other nations.

[Lowkoon]

I find japanese chopsticks much pointier than chinese chopsticks. Hoping for regulation soon to save me from a vicious chopstick wielding maniac on a rampage through the cabin. Have you seen what Kungfu Panda and master Shifu can do with a set of those? But what happens if he ever gets hold of a fluro light bulb, we ail be runed. My god, the fat belts! he could whip me! Or wet some toilet paper and throw it at me, or even worse, come at me with the sharp edge of the aluminium cover on a Y class meal! Or roll up a duty free magazine and give me a good wallop or infict a paper cut from a sick bag! Yep, big picture stuff alright, thank god they stopped the leatherman. Imagine if he had nail clippers as well, and eyebrow tweezers, or a longer than usual car key, then where would we be as a civilisation? it doesn't bare contemplating.

[TWT]

Yep.All you have to do is get a pencil sharpener aboard and you can modify the chopsticks

[monster330]

This industry is in complete and utter decline.

What a shame.

What a total ballzup

Rosters, management, security, management.....can a good word be said about any of it!

[Lowkoon]

It ends when you retire....

[Bronx]

FERetd




Just 11 years ago, a newbie was asking a whole lot of questions when he was trying to get into Cathay, and again when they gave him a 747 freighter base job in North America.
He didn't like being seated down the back when commuting on US carriers despite travelling in his new airline pilot's uniform but he was very happy to have a job with a legacy carrier.
And on the plus side, rapid command/seniority jumping was "available to anyone in the company that passes a command assessment. If an FO has been with the company 8 years and wants a Freighter command, all he has to do is apply."

So how does a guy whose been given a whole lot of advice on Prune, even about doing his BFR to fly his N-reg GA aircraft and buying Bose's for it etc respond when someone else (a 320 captain in another airline) asks very politely for insiders opinions about applying to Cathay as a direct entrant FO?

I love the little throw in about you being a 320 captain. Good for you! Your mother must be proud. But if you want to join a real airline, that doesn't mean anything (especially being a light twin.) You join at the bottom like everyone else.
Of course -- you can always just jump from one crap start-up airline to another. You'll probably even get to keep your beloved Baby-Jet, 4-Bar thing if you do, so you won't bruise your delicate ego.

Someone else assured the OP that "not everyone in CX is a rude moron".

Why am I not surprised by the reaction of this 11 years with the company sky-god when a colleague (61) gets arrested at LHR?

Hopefully this involves getting fired.

He'd only been with Cathay for 5 years when he was asking what the experience of the 55+ guys added to the company and only 6 years when he was complaining about "old farts that won't leave" even though nearly all the world's airlines had moved retirement age to 65.

We don't need any more stupidity in the cockpit than we already have.

We?

Not every American is an arrogant ***hole, but folks like Pogie don't help.

[JammedStab]

Originally Posted by Pogie

I hear this stupid comment all the time. It's not the pilot highjacking his own aircraft that's the concern. The concern is that the pilot passes the knife off to another person in the terminal who then gets on another aircraft.

I suspect that the concern is that the person in a pilots uniform could be an imposter.

How difficult is it for anyone to buy a pilots uniform. And with todays technology, it is probably not that difficult for someone with a bit of talent to create a security pass, especially a foreign one which the local security staff would be less familiar with.

So.....just go through security like a passenger would. And if you are carrying something unusual, perhaps before trying to go through security, ask to speak to the person in charge if certain items are permissible.

[plainpilot11]

I suspect that there is a lot more to this than what we've heard. After all, it's been over 6 days now since the incident, and it seems the information coming out came to a grinding halt nearly immediately after the incident. Makes me think that the reactionary media has found out that it wasn't that big of a deal after all, and let go of the story quickly to avoid embarrassment.

[Trafalgar]

...at least now they are going after the real terrorists...

Four-year-old boy frisked and forced to hand over toy gun that fired SPONGE darts after it was deemed a security risk by East Midlands Airport | Daily Mail Online

[deptrai]

"And if you are carrying something unusual, perhaps before trying to go through security, ask to speak to the person in charge if certain items are permissible."

Good idea, I support that, but my experience tells me, some people, like me, will make (honest) mistakes. I'm counting about .25 mistakes per year. I'd like to see airport security empowered to make their own decisions, not relying so much on rules...Israel, a country that has some experience dealing with terrorism, has been doing that for a long time, with some success I think.

[speedyb]

Why would a member of the flight crew need to carry any "sharp, pointy things" with him? I would be taking a second look at him if he were paired with me. While I flew in and out of Heathrow to many times to count, if security finds a pilot packing knives, kudos to them.

[CYRILJGROOVE]

The toothpicks in the crew sandwiches would probably do more damage than what he had.

Do they arrest passengers in the UK who accidentally leave Swiss Army knives or similar in their carry on luggage....or do they just take it from them, and give them a verbal bollocking.......serious question

[Epsomdog]

....or do they just take it from them, and give them a verbal bollocking.......serious question

With 40 years of experiance with Heatrow security, I would say, YES, that's exactly what happens. Most of the time.

However, if you argue, attempt to reason and or loose your cool.......?

Who knows what happened in this case? None of us were there!

[Flying Lawyer]

speedyb

if security finds a pilot packing knives, kudos to them

No-one has criticised security for finding the item(s).
Discussion has focused upon what happened afterwards.

"packing" knives?
That term is usually used in a pejorative sense.
Was that intentional, or did you simply mean contained in his hand luggage - just as he was probably 'packing' a toothbrush?


Epsomdog

However, if you argue, attempt to reason

At airports and elsewhere, whether an incident escalates out of all proportion can depend upon the personality and calibre of the police officer(s) who attend.
For example: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/1...o-arounds.html

It will be interesting to see what happens when the facts are considered by the CPS and to learn whether this was a serious incident or a trivial matter blown up out of all proportion.

[deptrai]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the facts are considered

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for people to consider facts of a particular incident, as a long as the laws/rules are silly.

Flight attendants and passengers keep getting injured by heavy hand luggage falling out of overhead bins. This is a real, not an imaginary threat. Now what if someone intentionally swings their 15 kilo hardshell hand luggage at your head? Then there are the hundreds of glass bottles pax are carrying. Oxygen tanks and fire extinguishers could also make formidable weapons. The on-board cutlery, chopsticks, fire axes, etc etc, it's all well known. I'm not saying we should ban all that, just like I think it's (barely) fair to allow engineers on duty around the aircraft to have access to a spanner. How about if some malicious terrorist fuel truck driver would speed out onto a runway in just the wrong moment...can you imagine the disaster? But according to current rules, some yoghurt carried by a pilot is getting more attention. How many have actually been hurt by a yoghurt? Let's just face it, there are nonsensical elements in the ongoing "security charade". Knives or whatever, I put up with it and do my best to comply...but there is room for improvement, and I think that is a more interesting debate, in general, than to consider the facts of some particular case where someone got caught carrying something he/she shouldn't. Yawn.

[Tourettes_Guy]

Embarrassing

Until it is officially disclosed what type of knife was found and the actual circumstances of the 'arrest' why is so much time, effort and venom being spent trading insults and apportioning blame? The threads and 'limited' information available suggests that security took possession of the 'knife' in question and allowed the pilot to proceed. Looks to me like they did their job in accordance with regulatory requirements. Regulatory requirements that apply to all, even pilots! If thereafter the police have been informed surely the question must be asked of them as to why the pilot was detained. Why are the security staff being chastised for following the requirements stipulated by ICAO in accordance with Annex 17 and the UK NCASP? Some very derogatory remarks have been laid at the door of the security staff who, after all do their best to protect operating crews and passengers. Some of you (NOT ALL) sound like Prima Dona's who operate above regulation merely because they are professional pilots (and no doubt good ones). To those who fall into this category, do yourselves a favour and act accordingly. Stop bringing this profession into disrepute. Everyone has a right to answer and no doubt the pilot concerned will explain all in due course. Until then, remember everyone employed in aviation is on the same side. They all have jobs to do.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

why is so much time, effort and venom being spent trading insults and apportioning blame?

Welcome to PPRuNe.

[Arfur Dent]

Honest mistake by a good human being. Don't do it again - no harm done - move on.

[BalusKaptan]

Exactly right A.D.
No knives as such were involved. That was just the classification the tools were placed under. Ultimately going to be a storm in a tea cup and red faces all round.

[Epsomdog]

Originally Posted by deptrai

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for people to consider facts of a particular incident, as a long as the laws/rules are silly.

Flight attendants and passengers keep getting injured by heavy hand luggage falling out of overhead bins. This is a real, not an imaginary threat. Now what if someone intentionally swings their 15 kilo hardshell hand luggage at your head? Then there are the hundreds of glass bottles pax are carrying. Oxygen tanks and fire extinguishers could also make formidable weapons. The on-board cutlery, chopsticks, fire axes, etc etc, it's all well known. I'm not saying we should ban all that, just like I think it's (barely) fair to allow engineers on duty around the aircraft to have access to a spanner. How about if some malicious terrorist fuel truck driver would speed out onto a runway in just the wrong moment...can you imagine the disaster? But according to current rules, some yoghurt carried by a pilot is getting more attention. How many have actually been hurt by a yoghurt? Let's just face it, there are nonsensical elements in the ongoing "security charade". Knives or whatever, I put up with it and do my best to comply...but there is room for improvement, and I think that is a more interesting debate, in general, than to consider the facts of some particular case where someone got caught carrying something he/she shouldn't. Yawn.

I think this thread is going round in circles!

It seems like a fairly simple dilemma.

1. Do we need security rules and restrictions?
Assuming the answer is yes, then....
2. Should those rules and restrictions apply to everyone, equally?

My view is most certainly, YES to both! If you allow special exemptions then you create a loophole or weakness that can be exploited by any would be terrorist!