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SO Cathay with family.

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

SO Cathay with family.

Old 15th Apr 2015, 06:27
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Let's be honest, if he joins with the 1,000,000 HKD "joining package", it's doable.
It's just enough to cover rents for a 700sqf flat in a remote area, or a 300sqf in Central for 3 years.

Biggest issue with a family: schooling. 3+ years of waiting list for Kindergarten or Primary in International Schools. Secondary school less of an issue.

Food can be cheap if you eat in McDonalds or Chinese food most of the time.

If you really want to live in Hong Kong, then Hong Kong airlines is probably a better deal (housing package, FO rating, and they are even more desperate than CX to crew their planes)
But most of the other issues (schooling, pollution,...) remain the same.
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Old 15th Apr 2015, 08:20
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That's a surprisingly balanced view you've got on this thread. I always say to people that if you're young, single and don't mind sharing a small flat with a bunch of mates then it's a good gig for a few years but if you've got any children then it's sadly not.
CX pay 70% of your basic school fees but the fees count as cash so you're taxed at 15% on those fees. Given HK$90k school fees, that's HK$36.5k/yr per child from your own pocket. In addition, every school also has some sort of debenture/levy and CX don't help with these at all. The cheapest of these is probably about HK$40/yr so that's a minimum of HK$76.5K per child per year.
You also have to add the shortfall from the 90K a year to the actual school fees of 130K for most schools . The Canadian international is even more expensive!
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Old 15th Apr 2015, 09:02
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Any idea about the queue for US base then?
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Old 15th Apr 2015, 09:30
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Like Silber says.

Come to the interview and make up your mind when the offer is a reality.

Cheers!
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Old 15th Apr 2015, 14:09
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Respect to the thread.

Reality has finally met the 'pprune exaggeration phenomenon'.

Now there is no "you are overstating" counter-argument.

The numbers do not add up.

Isn't that concept a concern in itself?

No one can honestly promote CX anymore.

#peakramble
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Old 15th Apr 2015, 15:17
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A very good thread. Advice requested and sound advice offered and very well received from a mature Canadian who like us, enjoys a good drink. Shame the offer is as it is now, as I'm sure you would fit in well.
Due to the C scale, we don't get much experience to work with these days.
Good luck in your next venture.
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Old 15th Apr 2015, 22:48
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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baggagecart

I doubt he will have much left over if anything after paying both Canadian and Hong Kong tax. He will be treated by the Canadian tax authorities as a resident of Canada for tax purposes and by the Hong Kong IRD as a resident of Hong Kong for tax purposes. An please don’t get me started on the buggerisation that is CX staff travel, it’s high cost, high load factors etc. etc. etc. I think your plan is unworkable for a low paid SO.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 01:11
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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With a family and a Western lifestyle CX is maybe not the right choice, depending on your current circumstances of course.

I have never been closer to Yellow Knife or Dead Horse etc than 39000 feet. I know where I would rather live ( and I do) , but that is of course totally subjective.

However, and that is unfortunately the crucial point, there are enough applicants who are younger and less demanding.

You have to understand: even IF we would have a shortage, than it would not be because of a lack of applicants, or because the package is not good enough, it would exclusively be because of wrong planning, a big difference.

You guys are fighting the wrong war.

Now go ahead and shoot the messenger, as usual.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 02:25
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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With the comments about the Encore turboprop LCC, I am reminded of a cadet FO who is leaving here for Encore to fly Q400s. I kid you not!
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 03:02
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Nothing wrong with flying a Q400
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 03:32
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Cathay always had, has and will have one of the lowest attrition rates in the industry.

Totally irrelevant, Cxorcist, as usual.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 07:11
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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If you say so Paul. I think it is entirely relevant when a 777 FO leaves to fly Q400s for an LCC, but we all know how smart you are from the AOA forums. So you must be correct. Totally irrelevant. CX recruits hundreds of cadets each year but can't manage to grow the seniority list. Does that sound like low attrition to you?
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 08:45
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Always will have a low attrition, STW?

Did you by any chance notice that expat crew don't get expat conditions anymore? And have close to zero chance of getting a base?
CX is only able to attract candidates thanks to its reputation.

And if the attrition is so low, they might as well reduce your conditions further, as you will probably never leave anyway...

What would you do if you had no housing?
I know I wouldn't stay.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 09:20
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Stop calling me Paul you moron. Do you really think I would post on the AOA with guys like you around??

You guys are calling wolf sinc I am in Cathay.. 10 years and counting... What..If..Will.. Could...Should...

Like some lunatic cult members anouncing armageddon every new year.

The same guys since years and years predicting the melt of the housing market, China, recruitment fiasco, loss of housing, the wheels are falling off, Americans are leaving, SOs are leaving, Command failure rate 20-70 %, the list is endless.

Don't you get the irony of waffling about worsening conditions, attrition etc AND STILL STAYING????

Still, in 10 YEARS in did not happen.
Why don't you guys face REALITY ? Lets try to get THE BEST WE CAN, NOW. Not in some imaginary cookooland scenario.

Sigh..
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 09:37
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Kirk,
yes of course I noticed and I find it as worrysome as you, but that is not the point.
Of what relevance is the seniority list??? All that matters for them is: can we fly our planes, yes or no.
And the answer is YES. Do you think they don't plan in retirements? Do you think they get caught out by the handful that leaves?? Of course not, they KNOW the numbers, they have it right in front of their screens! Its not rocket science! It is irrelevant if I or you like it or not, but you just have to admit that ALL the doomsday calls of the last DECADE were wrong!! And still you guys are like, oh yes, but THIS time they got it wrong, THIS time its different.. LUDICROUS!!!
You are saying you would not stay if they lower your conditions further. GOOD. Because that is precisely your only alternative. Pouting in pprune leads to NOTHING.

If you want to do something while you are still here:

Stop telling SOs their package is inferior, firstly because it is not, secondly because than these spoiled kids would maybe not vote down a pay deal
- Stop listening to Americans they will leave, because they won't
- Don't EVER vote down a PAY INCREASE. Just down do it.

And to CC:
I said from the beginning it is useless like that and, unfortunately, I was right.
We must include no more discretion or forget about it. Wearing red lanyards and making a grumpy face in the briefing area is just not that impressive in the end.
Since Captains have to sign the paperwork, I suggest we let ONLY Captains vote.

Last edited by Sam Ting Wong; 16th Apr 2015 at 09:59.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 10:14
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I agree with cxorcist, Sam Ting Wong is Paul M.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 15:36
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Paul STW,

You claimed low attrition. If that's the case, please explain how the seniority list did not grow last year and yet CX hired hundreds of cadets. Did we have hundreds of retirements? I must have missed quite a few parties.

PS - I never, ever called a housing meltdown. I'm not in the business of predicting what I can't. I don't think I've made any predictions that I recall. I will predict CX having more mishaps if things don't change.
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 15:41
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I usually don't attack individuals everyone has an opinion and a right to voice that opinion but in STW his handle is very apt

He has got everything " Wong " clearly management trying to counter all the negative sentiment voiced here, what he fails to realize is the depth of anger and negative feeling amongst the crew to this company . It's bad and it runs very deep

So let's Have a quick poll and please be honest. If CX gave notice that the housing allowance were to be scrapped tomorrow how many would or could afford to stay
I might want to but couldn't afford to so I would be gone as soon as the allowance was cut
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 16:45
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Did you notice what a mature thread this was until 'Sam the stooge' turns up?
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Old 16th Apr 2015, 23:12
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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baggagecart

They get different allowances as they joined on a different CONTRACT.

All your argument will do is lower the allowance for the EXPAT to the new slightly higher HK pilot allowance.

Did you sign the new contract knowing what it entailed?
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