German plane crash
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i agree ! low time pilots in Airliner flight decks is the root cause.
If you have endured contract/military flying accompanied by low pay and fatigue your level of resilience/maturity will be far higher once you join an airline.
The minimum age should be 25 years old with at least 1500 hours before you are considered by a major ! debt riddled airline cadets are NOT the answer.
If you have endured contract/military flying accompanied by low pay and fatigue your level of resilience/maturity will be far higher once you join an airline.
The minimum age should be 25 years old with at least 1500 hours before you are considered by a major ! debt riddled airline cadets are NOT the answer.
short flights long nights
And let's not start on P2F
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Why play into the airlines hands? Perfect opportunity for pilot unions around the world to rally for 3-crew flight decks again. Can be argued its a safety requirement and can be argued there are untold training benefits for the 3rd seater.
Putting an F/A on the flight deck when required is at best a feel-good stopgap measure, and essentially useless.
A disgruntled,underpaid,overworked,unappreciated cabin crew,mentally vulnerable Cabin crew reaching the crew crash axe would be all required to finish off the remaining pilot.....
Id rather take the risk with a pilot whos assessment was relatively more in depth than our dear cabin colleagues..
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The Crickets that are very clearly chirping will not be heard by this said authority as they do not understand colloquialisms and hence are MUTE to what is actually going on AND have there heads so far up our masters backsides there is no chance they will ever ever get it until ...... And that aint far around the corner
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Except that the other suspected cases of pilot suicide have involved ex-military pilots, and/or pilots with plenty of experience, so low time/ non military pilots is not the root cause - changes the risk not one iota...
Why did he fly when unfit? Would his loss of license insurance (if any...) cover depression?
Why did he fly when unfit? Would his loss of license insurance (if any...) cover depression?
Farman has nailed it on the head. Move the cockpit door rearward. Its simple.
Cockpit crew stay in a secure area. Food? Push it through a small opening at the base of the prison like door.
Cockpit crew stay in a secure area. Food? Push it through a small opening at the base of the prison like door.
short flights long nights
This could get very interesting. More than one airline thinks it's a good idea to use nasty grams to encourage people not to call in sick. Perhaps people might start to realise all of the ramifications of being able to fly for $3.50 a seat.
Having said that, there are a few, so called full service airlines that use the same tactics on their staff.
Having said that, there are a few, so called full service airlines that use the same tactics on their staff.
Join Date: May 2008
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I very much disagree that having 2 people on the flight deck would be useless. Not only is it a good practice to begin with, but also has value in prevention. It's one thing to run an airliner into a hill safely in front of a locked door with faceless entities behind you and quite another to have to brutally attack and incapacitate another person--up close and personal--who would be directly fighting back for their life and then go do your evil deed. During the while the other individual could be doing SOMETHING and might even manage to get the door open.
In fact, most of the mass attacks by crazies on groups have been done with the premise that they would not or could not fight back under the circumstances (disparity in armament and/or force and shock with a lack of understanding of the victims what was going on).
Now that this HAS happened, crew know that it CAN happen and think about what to do in such a scenario.
While it might not stop dedicated miscreants (like in the FedEx case which was a planned attack in a suicide for insurance situation), it might be enough to keep a crazy off the ledge long enough for other factors of behaviour to be discovered through peer monitoring and real time personal history factors.
Obviously this disturbed individual was looking for the opportunity to be alone to do his deed. While the 2-person concept isn't a cure all by any means, it is a start and I believe has value at little or no cost. Why not ?
In fact, most of the mass attacks by crazies on groups have been done with the premise that they would not or could not fight back under the circumstances (disparity in armament and/or force and shock with a lack of understanding of the victims what was going on).
Now that this HAS happened, crew know that it CAN happen and think about what to do in such a scenario.
While it might not stop dedicated miscreants (like in the FedEx case which was a planned attack in a suicide for insurance situation), it might be enough to keep a crazy off the ledge long enough for other factors of behaviour to be discovered through peer monitoring and real time personal history factors.
Obviously this disturbed individual was looking for the opportunity to be alone to do his deed. While the 2-person concept isn't a cure all by any means, it is a start and I believe has value at little or no cost. Why not ?
All Freighters must be 3 pilot then. Or is it back to the days of a stewardess to look after us and our catering
Seriously, I can't see 2 persons on the F/D being any safer apart from stopping you falling asleep. If someone is half as sick as this guy with the CX pressure on him and has gone to work I can't see a hostie stopping him breaking up the aircraft
Seriously, I can't see 2 persons on the F/D being any safer apart from stopping you falling asleep. If someone is half as sick as this guy with the CX pressure on him and has gone to work I can't see a hostie stopping him breaking up the aircraft
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Sickness Management Program?
Systemic pressure from the Company to not call in sick?
Nastygrams from the DFO threatening those who call sick?
Systemic pressure from the Company to not call in sick?
Nastygrams from the DFO threatening those who call sick?
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The said bloke received a letter on file and misses his pay increment for a year
Meanwhile CAD phonies continue to allow and perpetrate this mess CX call a 'roster ' and ' sickness management program ' and 'Corporate safety department '
Lads be very careful with some say is the AB CP
Meanwhile CAD phonies continue to allow and perpetrate this mess CX call a 'roster ' and ' sickness management program ' and 'Corporate safety department '
Lads be very careful with some say is the AB CP
Join Date: Jun 2004
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The explosive growth in air travel has not been managed well by the airlines since it started back in the 90's. Because of this, opportunist executives saw a possibility of financial gain using the low cost model which many have crafted and customised for their model. The perverse idea of pay for training was a bad idea that was spawned from this growth and has woven itself into the fabric of aviation. Quick turnarounds, sales gimmicks on board, cuts in other crucial positions, have all contributed to this stew in the name of making more money with less resources and working your staff to the limit ( and sometimes beyond) in the name of productivity. While some people won't agree with my opinion, it has led to the demise of what was once a proud and distinguished profession.
My .02
My .02
45kg 20 year old canto BC V'S 90kg 45 Year old western Pilot with a crow bar, hell bent on killing himself & everyone on board, the outcome is going to be pretty obvious. IF you had 3 of our girls up the front, the plane is still going down!
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Whilst the CVR is not officially in the public forum and this is purely hypothetical then I submit this as one possible solution.
What I find hard to fathom is the recording from the CVR. Various people have quoted that from the CVR is that during the minutes leading up to the crash, the F/O's breathing is calm. I haven't heard it but usually when a person is in a heightened state then the breathing wouldn't be calm.
IF the F/O was awake and alert and trying to instigate an accident then his breathing would be louder and excited. His breathing remained calm.... which could lead me to think that he either had his eyes shut to avoid the psychological stress that would be occurring OR his performance was impaired because he was already passed out (Due to what ever reason).
The final option is that he was psychologically affected and was hell bent on inflected damage to himself and the plane.
What ever the final version - we will have to wait unit the report comes out.
I'm not totally convinced yet that it was intentional..... Wait and see
What I find hard to fathom is the recording from the CVR. Various people have quoted that from the CVR is that during the minutes leading up to the crash, the F/O's breathing is calm. I haven't heard it but usually when a person is in a heightened state then the breathing wouldn't be calm.
IF the F/O was awake and alert and trying to instigate an accident then his breathing would be louder and excited. His breathing remained calm.... which could lead me to think that he either had his eyes shut to avoid the psychological stress that would be occurring OR his performance was impaired because he was already passed out (Due to what ever reason).
The final option is that he was psychologically affected and was hell bent on inflected damage to himself and the plane.
What ever the final version - we will have to wait unit the report comes out.
I'm not totally convinced yet that it was intentional..... Wait and see
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Maybe he knew if he took 7 sick days his €200 bonus would be slashed?
So three people is the answer? What happens when two of them conspire to do something when the third isn't watching? Do we get four?
This tragic soul is an outlier amongst human beings, not just amongst pilots. Yes, our industry will need to be seen to respond with some procedural change that typically won't cost the airlines anything, but will probably significantly inconvenience the tens of thousands of pilots who turn up to work and get the job done every day. The fleet office will whack a zero tolerance policy on omission of the new procedure on the next line check, and so it goes on.
So three people is the answer? What happens when two of them conspire to do something when the third isn't watching? Do we get four?
This tragic soul is an outlier amongst human beings, not just amongst pilots. Yes, our industry will need to be seen to respond with some procedural change that typically won't cost the airlines anything, but will probably significantly inconvenience the tens of thousands of pilots who turn up to work and get the job done every day. The fleet office will whack a zero tolerance policy on omission of the new procedure on the next line check, and so it goes on.
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This time, from the BBC (referring to the mental state of the F/O)
Are you paying attention, AT?
She added that he became stressed when they spoke about work: "He became upset about the conditions we worked under: too little money, fear of losing the contract, too much pressure."
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Whilst the CVR is not officially in the public forum and this is purely hypothetical then I submit this as one possible solution.
What I find hard to fathom is the recording from the CVR. Various people have quoted that from the CVR is that during the minutes leading up to the crash, the F/O's breathing is calm. I haven't heard it but usually when a person is in a heightened state then the breathing wouldn't be calm.
IF the F/O was awake and alert and trying to instigate an accident then his breathing would be louder and excited. His breathing remained calm.... which could lead me to think that he either had his eyes shut to avoid the psychological stress that would be occurring OR his performance was impaired because he was already passed out (Due to what ever reason).
The final option is that he was psychologically affected and was hell bent on inflected damage to himself and the plane.
What ever the final version - we will have to wait unit the report comes out.
I'm not totally convinced yet that it was intentional..... Wait and see
What I find hard to fathom is the recording from the CVR. Various people have quoted that from the CVR is that during the minutes leading up to the crash, the F/O's breathing is calm. I haven't heard it but usually when a person is in a heightened state then the breathing wouldn't be calm.
IF the F/O was awake and alert and trying to instigate an accident then his breathing would be louder and excited. His breathing remained calm.... which could lead me to think that he either had his eyes shut to avoid the psychological stress that would be occurring OR his performance was impaired because he was already passed out (Due to what ever reason).
The final option is that he was psychologically affected and was hell bent on inflected damage to himself and the plane.
What ever the final version - we will have to wait unit the report comes out.
I'm not totally convinced yet that it was intentional..... Wait and see
If you believe this guy did not intentionally murder those people. Your a fool. I am guessing your a flaming liberal and don't believe in evil?
If it is reveled that LH knew this guy was wacky. There will be hell to pay.