Another No Vote?
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Another No Vote?
Anyone have any idea where we go if the CC vote doesnt go through? It seems a pretty unlikely scenario but to vote No for pay and then vote No for CC.....I can't even begin to think where we go from there!
Hugo
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I think the 3rd floor would literally wet themselves. "No, your pay proposal isn't good enough, and we decline to do anything about it."
The reply from The Company would surely be, here's 1% over 3 years....
It's not rocket science.
The reply from The Company would surely be, here's 1% over 3 years....
It's not rocket science.
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Given the unilateral breach by the company as well as preemptive punitive rostering I'd probably put a less than 90% yes vote for CC in the hell freezes over/Zombie Apocalypse category.
I think the major beef is how long the process took and the time wasted in negotiating in good faith with an entity we likely knew wouldn't do so--in fact wouldn't negotiate at all unless forced to do so. Anyway, time to move forward.
My friends at other airlines are shocked when I describe what's going on. Too bad I can't see their facial expressions over the phone but it's always a "WTF."
I don't think the company fully appreciates that by taking the stance it is notorious for taking that it runs off the very folks they want to keep--those who suit up and show up and don't make excuses. It makes them look at what's going on and ask if they (with a very good track record and dedicated work history) really want to spend the next 20 years of their life working under management by punishment. Temporary glitches are, well, temporary but if the long term vector isn't a positive one (and this is one good thing the survey DOES reflect--a real need to fix this--so long as it doesn't fall on deaf ears--were I honestly managing a developing company and saw a 3% approval rating or the like of those I charged with running the place I'd s**t my pants) talented folks won't see this as their future. Stress and difficulty often brings out the true character of individuals and companies which is always worth finding out.
I think the major beef is how long the process took and the time wasted in negotiating in good faith with an entity we likely knew wouldn't do so--in fact wouldn't negotiate at all unless forced to do so. Anyway, time to move forward.
My friends at other airlines are shocked when I describe what's going on. Too bad I can't see their facial expressions over the phone but it's always a "WTF."
I don't think the company fully appreciates that by taking the stance it is notorious for taking that it runs off the very folks they want to keep--those who suit up and show up and don't make excuses. It makes them look at what's going on and ask if they (with a very good track record and dedicated work history) really want to spend the next 20 years of their life working under management by punishment. Temporary glitches are, well, temporary but if the long term vector isn't a positive one (and this is one good thing the survey DOES reflect--a real need to fix this--so long as it doesn't fall on deaf ears--were I honestly managing a developing company and saw a 3% approval rating or the like of those I charged with running the place I'd s**t my pants) talented folks won't see this as their future. Stress and difficulty often brings out the true character of individuals and companies which is always worth finding out.
Last edited by Shep69; 21st Oct 2014 at 14:32.
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I would not be at all surprised if CC is voted down. This negotiation has taken so long that I feel as if most people are sick and tired of it all..
Having said that I voted yes for CC and no for the pay offer.
Having said that I voted yes for CC and no for the pay offer.
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The pay offer was turned down..that was a no tie, no holds one off CX offer that they rarely, if ever do. To turn that down was crass to say the least. Now, as will be evident once the NO vote hits the street, we will all be shafted and gain NOTHING!! The pay issue should have been accepted and then used as a platform for further gain, CC and other RP management etc. an unbelievable move from the element of the pilot force who has little regard for our history except the ability to maintain a bullishness that has little place in the new CX...
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Pucka, blah blah blah, "The pay issue should have been accepted and then used as a platform..."
I've heard that crap for the past 15 years. Blah blah blah.
I'd rather have NO change to my pay and retain my PRIDE than bend over and take it up the
as you would have liked.
I've heard that crap for the past 15 years. Blah blah blah.
I'd rather have NO change to my pay and retain my PRIDE than bend over and take it up the
as you would have liked.
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Agreed, well put COL-ANGUS.
By accepting one confirms your worth, going after more afterwards is not professional.
The precedence needs to be set first up.
We need a moral victory more so than financial gain. Even if they come back with a 1% (5/4/4) gain and we accept that and move on. We'll come out on top ready to stand together with confidence for RP's that follow.
It's via our unity of a CC threat which got us the 4/3/3 offer in the 1st place, so don't suddenly say it was an easy win and on the plate decision. We "bold" union members made that available for ALL of the pilot body as a starting point. So don't say we voted down YOUR payrise it was never yours without our pressure.
If it were not the case our managers would have presented an easy offer of 4.5% 9 months ago, together with other 'fuel saving' staff members.
The reality is without the union we would have got a ZERO pay offer. Via 'potential' unity we achieved less than others and inflation. We collectively & patiently and democratically voted No and asked them for 5/4/4 with no remittance. The company have now called our bluff, brave folks stand tall & cowards throw there toys out the cot.
United & proudly I stand with the majority of my fellow professional crew for COLA. But more importantly for a psychological win. We should only pitch for a some gain and thus put more emphasis on the "psychological win"
By accepting one confirms your worth, going after more afterwards is not professional.
The precedence needs to be set first up.
We need a moral victory more so than financial gain. Even if they come back with a 1% (5/4/4) gain and we accept that and move on. We'll come out on top ready to stand together with confidence for RP's that follow.
It's via our unity of a CC threat which got us the 4/3/3 offer in the 1st place, so don't suddenly say it was an easy win and on the plate decision. We "bold" union members made that available for ALL of the pilot body as a starting point. So don't say we voted down YOUR payrise it was never yours without our pressure.
If it were not the case our managers would have presented an easy offer of 4.5% 9 months ago, together with other 'fuel saving' staff members.
The reality is without the union we would have got a ZERO pay offer. Via 'potential' unity we achieved less than others and inflation. We collectively & patiently and democratically voted No and asked them for 5/4/4 with no remittance. The company have now called our bluff, brave folks stand tall & cowards throw there toys out the cot.
United & proudly I stand with the majority of my fellow professional crew for COLA. But more importantly for a psychological win. We should only pitch for a some gain and thus put more emphasis on the "psychological win"
Last edited by crewsunite; 27th Oct 2014 at 05:00.
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Col angus, the company just saved $140 million in back pay not mention the cost of 4/3/3 in the future. And you're still working your roster, yep no doubt about it, we've taught the company a thing or two this month.
From all the discussions ongoing the one I like best is the "if the GC had got us 10% every year for 3 years I would have voted yes to that, that's what the GC should have got, why didn't they?"
No sh*t Sherlock, you think the AOA GC didn't try their hardest? I read these posts on the AOA forum and the utter stupidity is painful.
And while I'm here, the newbies rubbish the A scalers and their voice of wisdom from many years battling the company. The old timers all remember well when the company stuck a new contract in their mailbox and said "sign this because come Monday it's the only contract anyone's working under"
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
From all the discussions ongoing the one I like best is the "if the GC had got us 10% every year for 3 years I would have voted yes to that, that's what the GC should have got, why didn't they?"
No sh*t Sherlock, you think the AOA GC didn't try their hardest? I read these posts on the AOA forum and the utter stupidity is painful.
And while I'm here, the newbies rubbish the A scalers and their voice of wisdom from many years battling the company. The old timers all remember well when the company stuck a new contract in their mailbox and said "sign this because come Monday it's the only contract anyone's working under"
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
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Col Angus - When you accuse "people" of "bending over ...." etc... To me, it implies you believe "people" were doing something they didn't want to do, (because nobody could have an opinion other than yours right?) OR!! maybe "people" WANTED to take the offer because in their judgement, (couldn't be right because it's not yours), it was the best decision.
I've heard explanations of retaining "Pride" most of which contain a belief that the company will feel in some way chastened by having been disapproved of and rejected. Ever thought that they might just be Cock a Whoop at not having had to dole at any cash? Sure as hell that however it pans out the professionals are basing all on cold hard business not emotion. I'm not actually stating my position just wishing that we could grow up in our dealings with each other and our opinions. Pride cometh before the fall or resignation or sacking or lack of payrise etc, not relevant, it's a job.
I've heard explanations of retaining "Pride" most of which contain a belief that the company will feel in some way chastened by having been disapproved of and rejected. Ever thought that they might just be Cock a Whoop at not having had to dole at any cash? Sure as hell that however it pans out the professionals are basing all on cold hard business not emotion. I'm not actually stating my position just wishing that we could grow up in our dealings with each other and our opinions. Pride cometh before the fall or resignation or sacking or lack of payrise etc, not relevant, it's a job.