Hong Kong Airlines - New/Relevant info
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Not for Sale
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed. Take everything with a pinch of salt, and that means to do your due diligence to come up with sound reasoning and facts to make a decision and not from a "rumour network" website - as I've written countless times before.
But guys like you FF11 don't do your due diligence before deciding to attack the player and not the ball.
So, I'll do with you what you couldn't seem to do regarding my profile: it's 2016, you've been at "that other dreadful airline" for 5 years, hence you joined in 2011. Inductive reasoning (look it up) says you're therefor most likely at CX, & I'm almost 100% sure I'm right. A such that also dictates that you're a C-Scale iCadet [and that is how you'll be known for life no matter where you go in your career]. So after "2 years" as an FO you've amassed only 2 years of ICAO recognised hours since the CX P2X (SO) rating hours are not ICAO recognised. Some airlines I understand may make a waiver and accept 500 hrs of your sandwich hours, but I know of maybe only one. You've therefore amassed 175 hrs for your CPL, approx. 1500 hrs as an FO = approx. 1675 of ICAO recognised hours. With that total aeronautical experience you think you're some super cool dude reverse high-fiving pilot beach volleyball player, don't you?! And if you do have more hours than that and came to CX with more hours only to be a C-Scale iCadet then you're more of a fool than you've exposed yourself to be. It just means you were a failed pilot elsewhere who couldn't get a job and so had to take the scraps to be the cheapest backside in a seat. And still I'm the last person to take advice from you say? You begged for & took what I threw away as a pathetic insult & from that stand point your opinion counts?
From the UK? If so you might be one of those illustrious RAF "classroom pilots" who actually never even started their flight training and were subject to budgetary cuts and hence lost their seat in the classroom before understanding what a 1:60 was. But fast jet pilots you weren't, no matter how many times such UK C-Scale iCadets start a conversation with "I was in the RAF....".
And yet it's strange that so many reputable airlines aren't banging down the door of your "decent flat (2-3 bedroom [which is it?], 600-800sq' [which is it?]) costing around $20-32K [which is it?] in rent..." You don't seem to know the size of your own flat, how many bedrooms it has or the cost of rent you pay and I'm the one not to take advice from? Seriously?
So in short, you're a guy who took the sh!t sandwich deal whilst everyone told you it was rubbish and of course must defend it with lies and accusations against others' characters who speak out against what you begged for. By all means you've the right to speak in your defence, but try using facts and not shear and utter lies about those who disagree with you.
Other points you raise about HK are valid. It's just a shame you're an exposed liar about the first part of your idiotic, immature and self-exposing reasoning.
Now, back to HKA....
HKA has turned over more Fleet Managers and senior managers than any other airline in the region. Why does this not set off alarm bells? Much as the last, the current DFO is nothing but a self serving snake from what I am told by those who are there and have suffered his backside covering management techniques. A (former?) influential senior executive was banished from Singapore by decree of the Singaporean Prime Minister. Still no alarm bells? They recruit CX CAT D pilots and fast track them to Cmd. Yes, they take pilots that CX stated (prior to C Scale) could not be promoted and made them Captains. One is even the Deputy Tng Mngr and designated 330 Test Pilot. Still looking like a great airline to work for? They were put on the CAD CAT 2 list for continual safety breaches and only just came off it not long ago. They operated widebody aircraft for years without being capable of being granted ETOPS approval due the CAD refusing to grant it after continual flight ops and safety breaches. Their continued promises of fleet expansion has been proven to be lies upon lies. Where are the 777's that were due in 2011/2? Where are the 380's due in 2013/4? If it happens, good, but bank on it based on their history? No, I couldn't and wouldn't. They are at the mercy of the HNA group and your contract states that you can be relocated at the Company's will - at least that's the contract I saw & have on my computer from 2011. See FF11, this is called "due diligence". Know what you're talking about before shooting your mouth off. I know what HKA was like then and is now and hence I know it was a good choice to stay away from when I turned down an insulting pay packet from CX that you lapped up.
But guys like you FF11 don't do your due diligence before deciding to attack the player and not the ball.
Firstly, people like Dan Buster and Chinabeached are the last people in the world you should be listening to. These are seasoned 'old timers' that are so out of touch with the real world that their opinions are just beyond irrelevant. Unfortunately, these are the guys who joined in the golden era and feel entitled to insult anyone who joins on lesser contracts than them. However, it's still rather comical to find these 'seasoned veterans' sitting on their supposed gold mines whingeing away on PPrune day-in day-out...and it's because they have no one and nothing else to do with their life. Their third wife has already left them, they're feeling lower than low, and the only remedy to their loneliness is to come on PPrune and insult everyone. It's getting old...!
- I interviewed and passed the CX interview in early 2008 and was amongst the first to be offered C Scale. I've been to HK more times than I can recall and with many, many friends at CX, KA, corporate as well as investigated HKA personally and taking the accounts of close friends who were & still are there. So by your opinion I'm the "last person" to listen to? Best sit down and take the advice of someone with none of that first hand experience, eh? Maybe a CX C-Scale iCadet like yourself would be better? (More on that later....)
- "Seasoned old timers?" I'm under 40 years of age. If you'd have bothered to have read my posts from the beginning you'd have worked that much out based on timeline and my own history, as divulged by myself. But you haven't. You've just come up with a deluded account to satisfy your own conceited need to verify your imbecilic attack & reasoning as to why to discredit me, as well as DB.
- "Golden Era"? See the above point. But I will admit to making the most of the options laid in front of me borne from necessity as well as those that experience, credentials and qualifications enabled me to take advantage of. If you had them then you'd understand and wouldn't write such embarrassing and resoundingly inaccurate lies about me and others.
- "Insult"? If this is insulting then good. It's meant to. I'm very blunt and harsh. I don't suffer fools, hence my vitriol toward fools writing inaccuracies about me. In my previous post on this thread I, like others, had had enough of some similar fool begging for cheat-notes (dare I say the "Vol-8's") on how to pass a widebody DEFO sim. I & those before your pitiful existence passed the CX interview to a standard C-Scale iCadets could never fathom. So you pretending to fit into any form of a pilot uniform is insulting, hence I choose my words as I see apt and correct. I actually insulted myself in even writing it for him so as just to shut him up. But after all, that's the standard some people and airlines accept nowadays, as you're evidence of. (Imagine relying on a "rumour network" to turn to for "factual information"? Agreed - it's insulting to one's intelligence to read....)
- "Third wife?" No. Happily married to the same first and only wife I could wish for. Even with a job that has given me thus far greater career progression and long term financial security than CX, KA or HKA could. My wife and I are are very happy. Strange to a guy like you that someone under 40 can have a secure job in an airline, with good career progression and be extremely happily married, eh? You made your decision, my wife & I made ours. We're happy. By your own admission you can't say the same.
after spending 5 years here I am ready to leave.
From the UK? If so you might be one of those illustrious RAF "classroom pilots" who actually never even started their flight training and were subject to budgetary cuts and hence lost their seat in the classroom before understanding what a 1:60 was. But fast jet pilots you weren't, no matter how many times such UK C-Scale iCadets start a conversation with "I was in the RAF....".
And yet it's strange that so many reputable airlines aren't banging down the door of your "decent flat (2-3 bedroom [which is it?], 600-800sq' [which is it?]) costing around $20-32K [which is it?] in rent..." You don't seem to know the size of your own flat, how many bedrooms it has or the cost of rent you pay and I'm the one not to take advice from? Seriously?
So in short, you're a guy who took the sh!t sandwich deal whilst everyone told you it was rubbish and of course must defend it with lies and accusations against others' characters who speak out against what you begged for. By all means you've the right to speak in your defence, but try using facts and not shear and utter lies about those who disagree with you.
Other points you raise about HK are valid. It's just a shame you're an exposed liar about the first part of your idiotic, immature and self-exposing reasoning.
Now, back to HKA....
HKA has turned over more Fleet Managers and senior managers than any other airline in the region. Why does this not set off alarm bells? Much as the last, the current DFO is nothing but a self serving snake from what I am told by those who are there and have suffered his backside covering management techniques. A (former?) influential senior executive was banished from Singapore by decree of the Singaporean Prime Minister. Still no alarm bells? They recruit CX CAT D pilots and fast track them to Cmd. Yes, they take pilots that CX stated (prior to C Scale) could not be promoted and made them Captains. One is even the Deputy Tng Mngr and designated 330 Test Pilot. Still looking like a great airline to work for? They were put on the CAD CAT 2 list for continual safety breaches and only just came off it not long ago. They operated widebody aircraft for years without being capable of being granted ETOPS approval due the CAD refusing to grant it after continual flight ops and safety breaches. Their continued promises of fleet expansion has been proven to be lies upon lies. Where are the 777's that were due in 2011/2? Where are the 380's due in 2013/4? If it happens, good, but bank on it based on their history? No, I couldn't and wouldn't. They are at the mercy of the HNA group and your contract states that you can be relocated at the Company's will - at least that's the contract I saw & have on my computer from 2011. See FF11, this is called "due diligence". Know what you're talking about before shooting your mouth off. I know what HKA was like then and is now and hence I know it was a good choice to stay away from when I turned down an insulting pay packet from CX that you lapped up.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 24th Aug 2016 at 12:31.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ChinaBeached
Come on CB, don't be coy, tell us how good you really are 
Thankfully you don't stoop to the same level. By way of illustration I include the following:
Very gentlemanly of you to seize on others' misfortune to illustrate your superior judgement - pure class.
Seriously? Could have fooled me. I'll bet you're an absolute pleasure to fly with. As I sit here at my keyboard I can imagine listening to your tales of derring do and watching you buoy the crew with an endless line of witty banter.
Stirring stuff.
STP
I & those before your pitiful existence passed the CX interview to a standard C-Scale iCadets could never fathom.
But guys like you FF11 don't do your due diligence before deciding to attack the player and not the ball.
From the UK? If so you might be one of those illustrious RAF "classroom pilots" who actually never even started their flight training and were subject to budgetary cuts and hence lost their seat in the classroom before understanding what a 1:60 was.
I'm very blunt and harsh.
Stirring stuff.
STP
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Not for Sale
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually Steve, I'm a very laid back guy. I admit I'm brash & direct - no apologies. But I am so when the instance calls for it. Otherwise when people are willing to have an ammicable discussion & welcome other opinions then it's all the more pleasant. But in this instance the guys opening was a personal attack as to why guys like me shouldn't be listened to. I demonstrated in direct (& brash) terms why he's a tool. (See, easy, isn't it?)
He played the player & not the ball. No apologies therefore playing the game at his set standard.
I mention inductive reasoning as to my assumptions. I still believe I'm quite right & therefore used that to again demonstrate his most likely / almost definite background.
My crew & I enjoy overnights, beers & my downtime is spent with my family, & watching rugby with mates. Easy going guy really. But just as you believe that experience / hours don't count toward a pilot's potential or aptitude, you also think that an anonymous rumour website is basis to decide my persona to fly with.
Classy? My deduction of his background is quite near the mark if not spot on I reckon. He attacks me personally without any form of evidence but that's "classy"? But me making assumptions based on evidence is a no-no.... Just keep it balanced, eh Steve?
Your choice....
I believe experience, credentials & qualifications count. I believe that hours built in real time jeopardy & accountability in a real aircraft in real conditions are a pilot's mettle, not watching others doing it, or sitting in a safe, airconditioned non life threatening simulator is anywhere near as close. I also believe that a person's actions speak louder than words. I believe if you're the type of rugby player who throws cheap shots in a game then expect them back. The actions of guys like FF11 were responded to & exposed in the manner & rules he set. But you call me the bad guy??
He played the player & not the ball. No apologies therefore playing the game at his set standard.
I mention inductive reasoning as to my assumptions. I still believe I'm quite right & therefore used that to again demonstrate his most likely / almost definite background.
My crew & I enjoy overnights, beers & my downtime is spent with my family, & watching rugby with mates. Easy going guy really. But just as you believe that experience / hours don't count toward a pilot's potential or aptitude, you also think that an anonymous rumour website is basis to decide my persona to fly with.
Classy? My deduction of his background is quite near the mark if not spot on I reckon. He attacks me personally without any form of evidence but that's "classy"? But me making assumptions based on evidence is a no-no.... Just keep it balanced, eh Steve?
Your choice....
I believe experience, credentials & qualifications count. I believe that hours built in real time jeopardy & accountability in a real aircraft in real conditions are a pilot's mettle, not watching others doing it, or sitting in a safe, airconditioned non life threatening simulator is anywhere near as close. I also believe that a person's actions speak louder than words. I believe if you're the type of rugby player who throws cheap shots in a game then expect them back. The actions of guys like FF11 were responded to & exposed in the manner & rules he set. But you call me the bad guy??
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 26th Aug 2016 at 19:06.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi CB, no I'm not calling you bad guy necessarily, it's just that I didn't feel that you needed to descend to his level to support your argument. Name calling is petty by any measure and I've always considered you to be above that.
Not entirely true. My argument is that hours, in and of themselves, do not necessarily reflect competence but that's another story. It's a semantic argument really but it seems it's difficult for some (including you it would appear) to grasp my point. Anyway, enough of that.
Was the sarcasm that obvious? If ever we meet for a beer I'll have the opportunity to form a true impression, until then, and to use a term quoted by an antagonist on another thread, my judgement is based on prima facie evidence.
Cheers,
STP
But just as you believe that experience / hours don't count toward a pilot's potential or aptitude
you also think that an anonymous rumour website is basis to decide my persona to fly with.
Cheers,
STP
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Not for Sale
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fair enough Steve, & point taken. I'm willing to take the criticism when I'm critical of others.
Hours alone do not quantify aptitude. The TYPE of hours do. 1000 hrs of instructing in CAVOK in the training area are not as good 1000 hrs as single pilot night freight in winter over high terrain performing NDB & (night) circling approaches. Add a few more thousand hours to that TT / experience level as well as ME Multi-Crew Cmd time & you can't tell me that you're happy with a monkey see monkey do book-regurgitator sitting beside you instead?
As I re-wrote above: I believe that hours built in real time jeopardy & accountability in a real aircraft in real conditions are a pilot's metal, not watching others doing it, or sitting in a safe, airconditioned non life threatening simulator is anywhere near as close.
Let's let it be & leave this thread to its main purpose which is about HKA.
Hours alone do not quantify aptitude. The TYPE of hours do. 1000 hrs of instructing in CAVOK in the training area are not as good 1000 hrs as single pilot night freight in winter over high terrain performing NDB & (night) circling approaches. Add a few more thousand hours to that TT / experience level as well as ME Multi-Crew Cmd time & you can't tell me that you're happy with a monkey see monkey do book-regurgitator sitting beside you instead?
As I re-wrote above: I believe that hours built in real time jeopardy & accountability in a real aircraft in real conditions are a pilot's metal, not watching others doing it, or sitting in a safe, airconditioned non life threatening simulator is anywhere near as close.
Let's let it be & leave this thread to its main purpose which is about HKA.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The lion city
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tech exam and sim profile
Hi all,
Shortlisted for a DEC A330 position. What is covered in the tech exam?
Looking for some.positive feedback. I understand the negative part of the company and has read through the thread about HK Airlines. What are the general consensus about the airline these days? How is the staff travel benefits? Any feed back is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Shortlisted for a DEC A330 position. What is covered in the tech exam?
Looking for some.positive feedback. I understand the negative part of the company and has read through the thread about HK Airlines. What are the general consensus about the airline these days? How is the staff travel benefits? Any feed back is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Paris
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all,
I have just received terms and conditions for the commuting contract as capt A330 with the figures for more than 50hrs in a month. So I am wondering if with 20 days on you really fly more than 50hrs a month?
Is there anybody able to confirm. Thanks for you help and have safe flights
Lou2
I have just received terms and conditions for the commuting contract as capt A330 with the figures for more than 50hrs in a month. So I am wondering if with 20 days on you really fly more than 50hrs a month?
Is there anybody able to confirm. Thanks for you help and have safe flights
Lou2
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In someone pocket
Posts: 1,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NEw lifestyle rostering
I see the new lifestyle rostering...for HKA
Package A: As per Hong Kong Airlines rostering
Package B: Monthly roster will include one block of 4 consecutive days OFF
AND
one block of 2 consecutive days OFF plus 2 days of annual leave assigned by HKA rostering.
Package C: Monthly roster will include one block of 8 consecutive days OFF plus 2 days of annual leave assigned by HKA rostering.
These new roster options will help to facilitate a lifestyle preference that HKA pilots get to choose from....
Package A: As per Hong Kong Airlines rostering
Package B: Monthly roster will include one block of 4 consecutive days OFF
AND
one block of 2 consecutive days OFF plus 2 days of annual leave assigned by HKA rostering.
Package C: Monthly roster will include one block of 8 consecutive days OFF plus 2 days of annual leave assigned by HKA rostering.
These new roster options will help to facilitate a lifestyle preference that HKA pilots get to choose from....
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: FL Whatever
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These new roster options will help to facilitate a lifestyle preference that HKA pilots get to choose from....
The existing HKA pilots are being fobbed off with 'Option B', while new joiners (including NTR guys) are to be offered any Option they want, including the most desireable Option C.
The existing HKA pilots are taking this like little lambs.
Or maybe they're expecting HKA Management to just lie, and screw over the newbies too. Anything is possible in this outfit. You take your chances.....
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: FL Whatever
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 350's will arrive in 2018 and are additional.
Any of you guys who are promised a 20/10 commuting contract - and if its a 'deal breaker' if you don't get it - be VERY careful. Don't give up a secure job to come here if you're depending on that. They'll promise the sun, moon 'n stars to get you signed up, but its one of THOSE places where they feel no compunction whatever in later changing the deal at their whim and to suit themselves.
Its a Chinese Airline, without the big bucks and guaranteed commuting.
Normally those benefits would counterbalance that "Chinese Attitude" that you have to learn to accept up North. But in HKA you'll get the full-on Chinese Attitude, without the benefits.
When you take money from these people - they OWN you,. Body mind and soul. You exist to serve. Nothing else is remotely important.
Whatever they promise, get it in writing, and be ready to walk when they don't deliver.
Otherwise, be prepared to join the ranks of the slaves they already abuse.
Oh, by the way, one detail you should consider - you get no 'freebies' to commute home. You pay for your own tickets. HKA Staff Travel is a PITA to use and you'll soon prefer just buying direct from the airline you'll be travelling with. The price difference is usually minimal anyhow because their Staff Tickets are overpriced. The application process is Byzantine, sheer drudgery.
The problem then arises that you may plan on going home on your last duty day (after your final flight). Forget that. The first and last days of your block days off will be spent travelling, because if you make a plan to go earlier they'll inevitably change your roster at the last minute.
They will never facilitate your commute by finishing you early before Days Off. They actually have a policy position against that because it encourages pilots to take risks with fatigue and missed connections.
Even if you do manage to get a swop (very difficult) onto an early finish - be prepared to get a phone call just before it starts telling you you're now switched to a duty with a late finish - thus screwing up your travel plans and probably costing you a full fare ticket. Happens all the time. There is no Roster Stability. There are no limits on the changes they may give you, only legal Min Rest and Max Duty limits.
Another favourite is to pull you off a flight (maybe your early finish before Days Off) and put you on a late Reserve, along with maybe another 10 reserves they already have.
So again your full-fare ticket gets flushed, along with your home plans, and you'll simply sit on your ass in HKG twiddling your thumbs when you could have been on your way back to your loved ones. They don't give a s**t.
They own you, so eat it and smile.
Any of you guys who are promised a 20/10 commuting contract - and if its a 'deal breaker' if you don't get it - be VERY careful. Don't give up a secure job to come here if you're depending on that. They'll promise the sun, moon 'n stars to get you signed up, but its one of THOSE places where they feel no compunction whatever in later changing the deal at their whim and to suit themselves.
Its a Chinese Airline, without the big bucks and guaranteed commuting.
Normally those benefits would counterbalance that "Chinese Attitude" that you have to learn to accept up North. But in HKA you'll get the full-on Chinese Attitude, without the benefits.
When you take money from these people - they OWN you,. Body mind and soul. You exist to serve. Nothing else is remotely important.
Whatever they promise, get it in writing, and be ready to walk when they don't deliver.
Otherwise, be prepared to join the ranks of the slaves they already abuse.
Oh, by the way, one detail you should consider - you get no 'freebies' to commute home. You pay for your own tickets. HKA Staff Travel is a PITA to use and you'll soon prefer just buying direct from the airline you'll be travelling with. The price difference is usually minimal anyhow because their Staff Tickets are overpriced. The application process is Byzantine, sheer drudgery.
The problem then arises that you may plan on going home on your last duty day (after your final flight). Forget that. The first and last days of your block days off will be spent travelling, because if you make a plan to go earlier they'll inevitably change your roster at the last minute.
They will never facilitate your commute by finishing you early before Days Off. They actually have a policy position against that because it encourages pilots to take risks with fatigue and missed connections.
Even if you do manage to get a swop (very difficult) onto an early finish - be prepared to get a phone call just before it starts telling you you're now switched to a duty with a late finish - thus screwing up your travel plans and probably costing you a full fare ticket. Happens all the time. There is no Roster Stability. There are no limits on the changes they may give you, only legal Min Rest and Max Duty limits.
Another favourite is to pull you off a flight (maybe your early finish before Days Off) and put you on a late Reserve, along with maybe another 10 reserves they already have.
So again your full-fare ticket gets flushed, along with your home plans, and you'll simply sit on your ass in HKG twiddling your thumbs when you could have been on your way back to your loved ones. They don't give a s**t.
They own you, so eat it and smile.
Last edited by ROW_BOT; 4th Sep 2016 at 07:37.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pollution Zone
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He really must have hated flying freight!
and...
-his fat paycheck
-his housing allowance
-his respectable worldwide medical insurance policy
-his retirement
-his ALPA contract work rules and protections
