Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Thank you

Old 10th Oct 2014, 05:32
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: All Over
Posts: 471
Thank you

Thank you to all those who did the right thing.

Fight's On
Shep69 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 06:53
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In front of the PC
Posts: 298
Right, so everyone's been talking the talk, lets see if your all prepared to walk the walk.
asianeagle is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 08:00
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 13
It's a classic tale of "gullible's travels", yet another pay rise missed due to living in fairy land.

My prediction of the future:

Company offers 2% increase, not back dated and starts D&G proceedings on all those naughty Airbus SO' s who were doing illegal sick outs.

Let the fun begin, interesting how we never learn from past mistakes
meanagre is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 08:34
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 276
The company couldn't get a 4% payrise over the line, and you reckon a 2% payrise, non-backdated, will do it?
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 08:35
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 276
..... and given the company's inability to attract sufficient new joiner S/O's (by their own admission), you really think they're about to go to town on the ones they have?
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 09:00
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 345
Settle VS.

We're being inundated with new joiners. 3 numbers added to the seniority list in 3 months. Outstanding job by the recruitment (and retention) department.
Progress Wanchai is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 09:04
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: in denial
Posts: 276
Good point Progress; outstanding effort that!

Only about 348 numbers short for this year, not to mention the 100 - person shortfall for last year
Veruka Salt is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 09:20
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 25
CX won't be short when they unilaterally institute 3 man ULH to Europe, 2 man to Aus, along with our meager % pay raise and HKPA increase without back dating. Followed by a sick management program and a healthy dose of intimidation and defensive rostering. And they won't have to waste time negotiating anymore....we solved all their problems for them.
bushbum is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 09:51
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: VHHH
Posts: 199
Whats happening with the RP's?

I hear that the numbers don't add up if the company want 3 man Europe.
CokeZero is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 10:08
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,890
Wow the conspiracy theories are flying----

They cannot send 2 crew to Aus where there is currently 3. I'd love them to try that with us on the base subject to EBA discussions and good faith etc.....

Bring it on.....
ACMS is online now  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 11:51
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 368
Okay I'm very happy accept the majority decision and go straight into contract compliance we certainly don't need another vote. We should have done this months ago.
As for 3 man to UK it's very restrictive on the company One pilot goes sick they can't get another with min rest as they can at the moment .All crew will require 2 nights rest if I read the FTLs correctly

Defensive rostering Yup but they are seriously short of crew so they are going to end up paying a lot more for all the reserve we will be doing

Screw it, now the vote has been taken we need to stick together, wish it hadn't been so close

Kenfoggo something above 20% would be acceptable , 4% is not
oriental flyer is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 12:24
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Crew bunk
Posts: 133
Well done to all you heroes who voted against MY increase in salary. What WOULD have been acceptable to you? Just asking.
MY increase??? Seriously??

Yeah, spoken like a true spineless, self-centered whining baby. Do you need a tissue? Time to man up and think about someone other than yourself. I'll bet that you're a G-day hero, as well!
Pogie is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 12:40
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: West Side
Posts: 4
So how many of the 49% yes voters will now vote in favour of CC? The company already knows we we're divided, now they have seen it in action... But clearly almost half the group thought this was good enough. Can that half now be relied on to take the next step into CC? And if not, does 51% of the AOA (which is of course we all know is much less then 51% of the entire pilot group) get the message across in CC while a potential majority is just doing the job (and probably working G days) as per the usual.

What does the company do next? One of two things in my opinion:

1. Offer "just" enough more to convince 30 more pilots to change their vote.
(5/4/4%??? 2500 HKPA?)

2. Present another offer that is "just" enough less to scare 30 more pilots into changing their vote before they come after expat housing and 3 man long haul?

Either way we are screwed. Probably 70% NO would have been needed to deliver a strong message. 51% yes probably would have been better. At least then we could have moved on to other issues. But now I fear the company will see a chance to devour a divided group.
Tres cool is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 13:48
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Somewhere in the Four Corners
Posts: 45
Jeezuz people, grow a pair! Some of you really need to ask yourselves whether you want to work for an employer that instills fear into you? The offer was sh*t, we said no thanks, the bogey man isn't going to jump out of the closet now, FFS!
Bo Wing is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 14:01
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 138
A couple more options for them:
1. Do nothing.....their SOP is procrastination. They can simply move on the RP and Housing. Come back to Salary later - say 12 months from now.
2. Impose a salary increase. This does not need to be agreed upon; it is an improvement in COS.
What are we gonna do? A thousand guys go into CC for 10 weeks? I'm sure they're shaking in their boots.
Swire has been doing this a long time and our GC has been on the job a couple weeks.
Who do you think is more prepared?
4 driver is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 14:03
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 1/2 Here & There
Posts: 25
Well Kenfoggo - do you think that CX is being

" Honourable and acceptable " in there behaviour.

And the AOA is not.

As it took 9 months for CX come up with this offer and it was at the last
moment ! ( With conditions). Really others got 4.5% last year for Nought!

The GC were bound , as it was a offer from the company
to put it to the troops.

Of course the, lazy non thinking voters were going to vote Yes.
There was a BS condition that the GC ratified the offer.

You are not the anti Christ just for voting NO.

Well done to the SO's and junior crew who had their thinking caps on

Stand up for your rights!
sos is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 14:54
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: hong kong
Posts: 181
Turkeys voting for Christmas.
The FUB is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 16:08
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 218
Let me get this straight. If the vote was accepted, US and Kiwis would resign from the AOA. If the vote failed, part of the 49% would resign from the AOA.

So basically, a significant number of our pilots are little children that will take their ball and go home if they can't win the game. How proud I am to be a part of this team.
BillytheKid is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 16:51
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 9
Finally we show some balls & tell the company exactly what we all thought when the offer was first announced. It's the likes of you "ken" that are happy to bend over & take what amounts to another CX pinapple. " Your" pay rise got exactly what it deserved. To answer your question 8,4,4 would have been acceptable.
LF is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2014, 19:34
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Cesspit
Posts: 345

The current offer on the table is 0/0/0.
I'd be surprised if the 49ers aren't going to fight to improve that.

And by the way, where have all you YES voters been hiding the past month? Maybe had you had the courage to be more pro-active pushing what you saw as the benefits of this unilaterally conceived deal you could have got a few more votes and got it over the line.
The NO campaign seemed to be more organized even without the help of the GC.
Progress Wanchai is offline  

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