Hong Kong Express
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
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Right now it sucks
You live as a lower middle class local reliant on public transport. I'm guessing you have inadequate medical coverage and insurance too? Do not get sick ! Hong Kong is an awesome place to live if you have money and scrape out some work-lifestyle balance.
At the moment, you are exploited labour and you are undercutting those who are here on contracts delivering just under what the profession deserves.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Hong Kong
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IT IS HONESTLY NO BETTER AT CATHAY
You just have to deal with jet lag on top of everything and sleep in small apartments too. Time to check out of HK and head back down under!!!!!!
You just have to deal with jet lag on top of everything and sleep in small apartments too. Time to check out of HK and head back down under!!!!!!
If you think you can roll back the evolution of the industry be my guest, good luck to you.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Well, in the US the industry is improving pay and benefits dramatically. The same dynamic of shortage of pilots will eventually effect the same elsewhere. In the meantime, an individual is still better off heading back home and joining one of their majors, as the rate of expansion, first world labour contracts and a more stable career path far outweigh any attraction (!) at CX. And that is exactly what is happening, as QF is just one example where hundreds of CX pilots are deciding they can't miss the greatest hiring boom that airline has ever witnessed, and don't want to be left behind.
Incidentally I know many Chinese pilots working in Hong Kong who have limited Cantonese. I also remember the SCMP doing an article last year where they quizzed the locals in a park on their reading and writing skills, and found a shocking level of illiteracy in the written word.
No wonder. Its an unwieldy niche language. Eventually to RIP.
Mate, no offence, but you need to cop on - the good old days are over. It’s not PILOTS who are under cutting your contract. It’s a new business model called Low Cost Carriers that have done that. No point whinging at the pilots forced to accept the ****ty deal on offer. For many of them it’s this or nothing.
If you think you can roll back the evolution of the industry be my guest, good luck to you.
If you think you can roll back the evolution of the industry be my guest, good luck to you.
Well it could be a long conversation.
Now I was chatting with a few LCC pilots at immigration in KL the other day. Maybe Lion or Malindo. They said the money on offer with HKG LCC's was aplenty for Asian people. This was both the Capt and F/O.
So people are accepting the pay without professional due diligence. As evidenced above.
You are existing in Hong Kong. You are not paid enough to have a life. You are complaining about public transport and population density because you are not paid enough to have a car or cars nor live in comfort. You complain about the local language, because you are not paid enough to integrate. You can't afford middle class local friends because you aren't paid enough to entertain or do the abundance of entertaining things this city has to offer.
It makes me furious. My boss tells me I'm overpaid because of the conditions your colleagues are accepting. I like Hong Kong. I like my life. I come on here and see the low cost guys living in sorrow like local van drivers. Go ! It seems a pitiful existence living in Tung Chung- and what if you or family get sick in this town? Surely you'd be either ruined or denied suitable care.
Well it could be a long conversation.
Now I was chatting with a few LCC pilots at immigration in KL the other day. Maybe Lion or Malindo. They said the money on offer with HKG LCC's was aplenty for Asian people. This was both the Capt and F/O.
So people are accepting the pay without professional due diligence. As evidenced above.
You are existing in Hong Kong. You are not paid enough to have a life. You are complaining about public transport and population density because you are not paid enough to have a car or cars nor live in comfort. You complain about the local language, because you are not paid enough to integrate. You can't afford middle class local friends because you aren't paid enough to entertain or do the abundance of entertaining things this city has to offer.
It makes me furious. My boss tells me I'm overpaid because of the conditions your colleagues are accepting. I like Hong Kong. I like my life. I come on here and see the low cost guys living in sorrow like local van drivers. Go ! It seems a pitiful existence living in Tung Chung- and what if you or family get sick in this town? Surely you'd be either ruined or denied suitable care.
Now I was chatting with a few LCC pilots at immigration in KL the other day. Maybe Lion or Malindo. They said the money on offer with HKG LCC's was aplenty for Asian people. This was both the Capt and F/O.
So people are accepting the pay without professional due diligence. As evidenced above.
You are existing in Hong Kong. You are not paid enough to have a life. You are complaining about public transport and population density because you are not paid enough to have a car or cars nor live in comfort. You complain about the local language, because you are not paid enough to integrate. You can't afford middle class local friends because you aren't paid enough to entertain or do the abundance of entertaining things this city has to offer.
It makes me furious. My boss tells me I'm overpaid because of the conditions your colleagues are accepting. I like Hong Kong. I like my life. I come on here and see the low cost guys living in sorrow like local van drivers. Go ! It seems a pitiful existence living in Tung Chung- and what if you or family get sick in this town? Surely you'd be either ruined or denied suitable care.
Look mate - the thing is they do leave. All the time. They come for a new experience, hours building, a free type rating, an upgrade, a training qual, or a retirement fund top up. Lots of different reasons. Then, when they get them, they leave. And another Joe Soap arrives to replace them. Rinse and repeat.
The arrangement seems to suit HKE/HKA, or they’d do more to stop it. But they clearly believe it’s cheaper to constantly be training new people than to retain their existing crews on higher T’s&C’s.
To be honest I think they couldn’t pay me enough to stay in HKG after I get what I want from it. It’s fun for a while alright, and you don’t need to be a millionaire to get your kicks. But eventually you start to miss things like clean air, clean water (straight from the tap), safe food, room to roam, wide open spaces, the beauty of nature in your homeland, a nice house on a piece of land of your own, personal transport and somewhere to go in it for a weekend, the company of your countrymen and your own language and culture, friends and family, oh, and a decent employer who doesn’t treat you like **** because the law and culture doesn’t allow it...all that normal stuff.
So yeah, I’ll leave you to enjoy HKG’s curious charm and I’ll shake the dust from my shoes when I go. There’ll be another adventurer along to replace me in a minute. That’s your misfortune.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Maybe there is a message there still.
Join Date: Mar 2018
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It sucks to be middle class in Hong Kong, it's that simple. The cost of living and the political status make it one of the unhappiest places in the world. Especially for people coming from the top tier countries (aka English-speaking world), finding themselves away from home, stuck in the same class with some of the most miserable people on earth, I understand the frustration. You can still have a good life there if you make a decent living, but unfortunately it doesn't happen to the people in this industry anymore. There are many bright people in Hong Kong, but being in the middle class, along with millions of other angry locals, you are not likely to meet them. There are nature reserves, but you are probably too overworked to learn about where they are. The only image of Hong Kong in your brain is how the company treats its staff, so you choose not to assimilate and adapt. Once you get off on the wrong foot, everything else that follows will most likely turn out negative. Of course people don't care, because what makes you more important than they are, and the millions of others that are struggling to afford a place to live. Of course they are fixated on their iPhones, because reality sucks. Being middle class in Hong Kong is like being lower class in many other countries. Yes, it's sad, but what can we do, that's just how their society works. You'll see problems in any culture anywhere you go. All I can say is, there are far worse places out there in the world (where you probably wouldn't even lay eyes on). It's a living hell for some people. But for those coming from certain places in Southeast Asia or South America, it's paradise. Nobody forced anyone to accept the job when you could simply say no to the Ts & Cs in the beginning. I'm not a big fan of the Cantonese language myself, but if you've lived somewhere for years and the local language still sounds alien to you, I feel sorry for you. Let's remember, Hong Kong is one of the very few places in Asia where you can get by just fine with speaking only English. We seem to sometimes take that for granted as well. It is all up to you to put it into perspective. And I hope everybody eventually reaches his/her ultimate goal in the industry. Cheers.
This thread has drifted well away from the subject. But living in Hong Kong is part of the job, so people should be aware of the conditions. It’s not about ‘moaning’, it’s background info they should have. I’m sure it won’t make a whit of a difference to most people who choose to come, because their focus is on just getting a job. They’ll decide to just suck it up for a few years, as most do. In a weird way the best thing about the poor T’s&C’s in HKE is you probably won’t plan to make a career in such a company - unless you’re from one of those abysmal countries that make HKG look like paradise. Or if it’s already your hometown.
You can comfort yourself by contemplating not just the abused Middle Classes, but look at the wealthy. They must spend millions of USD to buy a ‘luxury’ flat and enjoy the view of the concrete jungle they live in. A larger more gilded cage is still a cage. I know ‘poor’ people back home whose quality of life is far superior to that of Hong Kong’s ‘rich’. If the numbers in your Bank Account are all that life means to you - enjoy your life in Hong Kong.
You can comfort yourself by contemplating not just the abused Middle Classes, but look at the wealthy. They must spend millions of USD to buy a ‘luxury’ flat and enjoy the view of the concrete jungle they live in. A larger more gilded cage is still a cage. I know ‘poor’ people back home whose quality of life is far superior to that of Hong Kong’s ‘rich’. If the numbers in your Bank Account are all that life means to you - enjoy your life in Hong Kong.
Millions of USD for a flat is the middle class. A useful point of clarification.
A low cost pilot in Hong Kong is probably working class? Even by Marxist definition !
A low cost pilot in Hong Kong is probably working class? Even by Marxist definition !
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: HK
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Glorious CX chairman just bought a 280 sq m flat - (so 3000 sq ft) for 120m HKD - 15.3m USD
"middle class" in HK is Quarry Bay. 600 sq flat there just sold in March for 9.7m HKD - 1 1/4 m USD.
A hotel room is normally 300-350 sq ft...
"middle class" in HK is Quarry Bay. 600 sq flat there just sold in March for 9.7m HKD - 1 1/4 m USD.
A hotel room is normally 300-350 sq ft...