Why does it take the whole week to deliver the pay proposals?
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Why does it take the whole week to deliver the pay proposals?
And the next time they meet will be the end of April. Even if the company accepts 100% the NC's proposals with no counter offer in the next meeting (of course, not going to happen) . The new deal still has to get the members' approval. At this snail's pace, I hope the 4 month's backdating will cover my pay rise for Jan 2015! 
Why does it take the whole week to deliver the pay proposals?
The NC is yielding to an acquisition cadence by facilitating a weak response to the GO.
Same script different stage.
Same script different stage.
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Not always in agreement with Jizz but will make an exception.
Had a beer with a NC member last week who;
a) Claims he has great rosters
b) Believes he's well remunerated for a
c) Has never had a sickie due a and b
d) negotiates despite his personnel beliefs
e) Is a moron due a, b, c and d
Good luck!!!!!!
Had a beer with a NC member last week who;
a) Claims he has great rosters
b) Believes he's well remunerated for a
c) Has never had a sickie due a and b
d) negotiates despite his personnel beliefs
e) Is a moron due a, b, c and d
Good luck!!!!!!
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You have to have a stronger membership
Remember, the GC and NC work for you, not the other way around.
Its really quite simple. CX/KA will only notice when something is done and that means Contract Compliance. They will drag this out until then period. The profit sharing, I believe, is a good sign of what they think of us.
At CX you should stop the madness, recall the President, Gen Sec and at least the NC and get some people in there who are not possibly corrupt. The longer you wait the longer it will take.
Seems there are strong people who would get it done but are often dismissed.
You guys/gals at CX are simply being played the fool. What will it take to convince you?
Its really quite simple. CX/KA will only notice when something is done and that means Contract Compliance. They will drag this out until then period. The profit sharing, I believe, is a good sign of what they think of us.
At CX you should stop the madness, recall the President, Gen Sec and at least the NC and get some people in there who are not possibly corrupt. The longer you wait the longer it will take.
Seems there are strong people who would get it done but are often dismissed.
You guys/gals at CX are simply being played the fool. What will it take to convince you?
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Progress
I two had a beer this week with a CM , and
1The company is completely playing the NC around by not agreeing to a pay/ rostering deal , CH is completely in control and he's hell bent of not going ahead with a rethink/ re organising of the shambles that is our rostering.
2 GD is Chairman in absentia , AWOL, just not on the job , nor interested . Only there by default . Company know this and using it to there full benefit.
Chaps until out current chairman is replaced and the current GC can implement CC this ain't going no where in the meantime , nowhere .Absolutely bloody nowhere.
I two had a beer this week with a CM , and
1The company is completely playing the NC around by not agreeing to a pay/ rostering deal , CH is completely in control and he's hell bent of not going ahead with a rethink/ re organising of the shambles that is our rostering.
2 GD is Chairman in absentia , AWOL, just not on the job , nor interested . Only there by default . Company know this and using it to there full benefit.
Chaps until out current chairman is replaced and the current GC can implement CC this ain't going no where in the meantime , nowhere .Absolutely bloody nowhere.
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Goathead
The GC member you were having a beer with has one vote on the GC, as does DLC. It is all well and good to point the finger, but your mate owns this "bills up" as much as anyone else on the GC.
The GC are not naive, the must have known there was a fair chance the new GMA is just "Phil the Herbert", but with t!ts. They must have known that punching a used-car salesman in the face <metaphorically> is a legit tactic. They must have a contingency plan and they will wheel that plan out later this week and "wow" us all. They are only bluffing in the latest update, they really don't need to discuss the next action.
We are paying two top rank ex-ALPA men top $HK and they must be over this like a tramp on chips. They must have anticipated this, mustn't they?
The GC are not naive, the must have known there was a fair chance the new GMA is just "Phil the Herbert", but with t!ts. They must have known that punching a used-car salesman in the face <metaphorically> is a legit tactic. They must have a contingency plan and they will wheel that plan out later this week and "wow" us all. They are only bluffing in the latest update, they really don't need to discuss the next action.
We are paying two top rank ex-ALPA men top $HK and they must be over this like a tramp on chips. They must have anticipated this, mustn't they?
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You can bet your left one that if the current situation was costing cx money this deal would have been thrashed out in 2 days of meetings.
No such thing as 11th hour talks with cx.
Current situation suits them fine.
Never changes.
No such thing as 11th hour talks with cx.
Current situation suits them fine.
Never changes.
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They must have a contingency plan and they will wheel that plan out later this week and "wow" us all.
I'm sure they planned it all along when they conscientiously decided to scuttle the only leverage they had in the negotiations, against the will of 94% of the membership.
Not even Francis Ford Coppola could write a good ending to that movie.
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Great post Liam - your amusing sarcasm left me in stitches.
But more seriously you wrote:
We are paying two top rank ex-ALPA men top $HK and they must be over this like a tramp on chips. They must have anticipated this, mustn't they?
Then I stopped laughing. DD has done absolutely nothing for us in his time here except take his huge expat package. His colleague in arms will do the same - nothing. We aren't in the US of A. We're in HKG and these two guys just don't understand how things work here and never will.
So who's running the AOA?
I know who's running rings round them.
But more seriously you wrote:
We are paying two top rank ex-ALPA men top $HK and they must be over this like a tramp on chips. They must have anticipated this, mustn't they?
Then I stopped laughing. DD has done absolutely nothing for us in his time here except take his huge expat package. His colleague in arms will do the same - nothing. We aren't in the US of A. We're in HKG and these two guys just don't understand how things work here and never will.
So who's running the AOA?
I know who's running rings round them.
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So who is stopping everyone from conducting CC on your own terms?
Why do you have to wait for the AOA to tell you what to do when it's very obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense that they are seriously screwing up the negotiations .
Why do you have to wait for the AOA to tell you what to do when it's very obvious to anyone with a modicum of common sense that they are seriously screwing up the negotiations .
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Great post Curtain Rod.... apart from the fact that it displays an incredibly naivety about the world.
<rant mode on>
Pay may be YOUR top priority but it is not necessarily everybody else's and in order to get the biggest increase in YOUR top priority then other factors have to be considered. If you don't think that rostering has any impact on our overall remuneration then you're even more in la-la land than I previously thought.
You saved the best for last and this just demonstrates that you are utterly clueless about how a union works and shows that you have never spent a minute of your life actually representing other people. We can't even fill the GC positions at the moment yet you advocate punishing those that actually do stand up to be counted. Good luck with getting anybody else to stand up for election and represent YOU.
You accuse the GC of self interest or being 'personal-agenda-driven' but at least these people have stood up, given their time and energy and worked to try and get YOU your pay rise. I suggest that it is YOU, Curtain Rod, that is personally-agenda-driven and you don't give a toss about anybody else's priorities in life. You have been asked / challenged countless times to do your bit and get yourself on the GC yet you continue to constantly snipe from the sidelines while refusing to try and do the job that you seem to think is a piece of p1ss!
Forgive me if I'm tired of your selfish whining!
<rant mode off>
<rant mode on>
Pay may be YOUR top priority but it is not necessarily everybody else's and in order to get the biggest increase in YOUR top priority then other factors have to be considered. If you don't think that rostering has any impact on our overall remuneration then you're even more in la-la land than I previously thought.
Fifth, we need to add language to all future motions that the date for CC stated in the motion is also the date to remove the president and GC from their positions if they cooperate with the adversary in their delay tactics and CC does not begin as called for in the motion.
Last, we need to create basic rules so that no future GC member is allowed to believe anything they are told by the adversary's negotiators until a document stating the agreements are signed by the CEO, nothing about "intent" remains outside of any agreement, wording in agreements must increase by at least a factor of 20 for all renegotiated and new agreements in order to remove all the intentional grey areas introduced by our adversary, and GC's that go off on a tangent (i.e. negotiating rostering when the membership wants pay fixed while wasting time on loophole-filled bargaining agreements) then each personal-agenda-driven "representative" will be fined 10000 HKD per day while doing so, and have their association credentials and membership revoked, and generally spend the rest of their careers being ignored.
Last, we need to create basic rules so that no future GC member is allowed to believe anything they are told by the adversary's negotiators until a document stating the agreements are signed by the CEO, nothing about "intent" remains outside of any agreement, wording in agreements must increase by at least a factor of 20 for all renegotiated and new agreements in order to remove all the intentional grey areas introduced by our adversary, and GC's that go off on a tangent (i.e. negotiating rostering when the membership wants pay fixed while wasting time on loophole-filled bargaining agreements) then each personal-agenda-driven "representative" will be fined 10000 HKD per day while doing so, and have their association credentials and membership revoked, and generally spend the rest of their careers being ignored.
You accuse the GC of self interest or being 'personal-agenda-driven' but at least these people have stood up, given their time and energy and worked to try and get YOU your pay rise. I suggest that it is YOU, Curtain Rod, that is personally-agenda-driven and you don't give a toss about anybody else's priorities in life. You have been asked / challenged countless times to do your bit and get yourself on the GC yet you continue to constantly snipe from the sidelines while refusing to try and do the job that you seem to think is a piece of p1ss!
Forgive me if I'm tired of your selfish whining!
<rant mode off>
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I keep hearing this line about pay and rostering being linked, but frankly, it's bull$hit. This should be an inflation adjustment. An adjustment to our pay scales to prevent us going backward even further. Otherwise every couple of years, we'd be re-negotiating rostering etc etc, just to get an inflation adjustment.
While we may need a change to rostering and such, we should be going for an adjustment to our pay scales as they are presently, to stop our buying power being eroded. It's not that difficult. Do you think all the ground staff etc that got 4% on 1 Jan renegotiated all of their work rules?
While we may need a change to rostering and such, we should be going for an adjustment to our pay scales as they are presently, to stop our buying power being eroded. It's not that difficult. Do you think all the ground staff etc that got 4% on 1 Jan renegotiated all of their work rules?
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What drugs was someone taking to think that a pay and rostering deal could be sorted in 4 months? Rostering is so F***ed up it'll take about 4 years so expect our good faith bargaining to give us a pay rise in late 2017!?!?
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Well, not that hard. 4 months is about 80 working days. Plenty of time to negotiate.
Of course, if we only get 5 days each month...
But like Rod says, it only takes someone to multiply the numbers by 1.XX, and voilą. Sorted!
Of course, if we only get 5 days each month...
But like Rod says, it only takes someone to multiply the numbers by 1.XX, and voilą. Sorted!
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I'm with Rod:
Was there a vote on CC if we didn't get a better rostering system? What a ridiculous time to begin talks on a new rostering system. Get us the inevitable 2.8% pay raise, AND THEN worry about the new rostering system to kick in after the current pay deal expires. ie have your sh!t in a pile before the pay deal finishes.
It's not rocket surgery/brain science.
This baloney that pay and rostering are not separate has got to stop
It's not rocket surgery/brain science.
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Freight dog,
I wasn't proposing a one man CC ,even if the AOA called for CC there would still be members helping out doing favors
But if the majority decide to take unilateral action because the AOA and the company especially are dragging their feet the impact will be felt soon enough
I wasn't proposing a one man CC ,even if the AOA called for CC there would still be members helping out doing favors
But if the majority decide to take unilateral action because the AOA and the company especially are dragging their feet the impact will be felt soon enough