So, how's that pay rise coming?
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So, how's that pay rise coming?
I read the recent newsletter while scratching my head. Is it me or did it really say well, nothing? Oh wait, the bases issue is NOT going well. Huh? Three months now and nothing has been achieved by your AOA. There may be a problem with your negotiating team I must say. The demand was for a pay rise and then work on the issues no?
Your new GMA is truly brilliant. So far she has convinced you that you have a say in the RA and GFBA. She has NOT given you a cent and has talked you out of CC. How they must chuckle every week after meeting with the AOA.
Your new AFTLs have now been crammed right down your throats and they have even told you now they will (as they always have been) violate your RPs. Please tell me If I am reading this wrong.
I was truly rooting for you but your AOA is letting you (and us)down. I think you should not waste any more time. Recall your president, the GC and the negoatiating committee. Have new elections and go right into CC.
Cathay will drag this out as long as they can. Trust me. You guys are being played.
Best of luck from the boys at KA. If the merger does come you might want better representation.
Your new GMA is truly brilliant. So far she has convinced you that you have a say in the RA and GFBA. She has NOT given you a cent and has talked you out of CC. How they must chuckle every week after meeting with the AOA.
Your new AFTLs have now been crammed right down your throats and they have even told you now they will (as they always have been) violate your RPs. Please tell me If I am reading this wrong.
I was truly rooting for you but your AOA is letting you (and us)down. I think you should not waste any more time. Recall your president, the GC and the negoatiating committee. Have new elections and go right into CC.
Cathay will drag this out as long as they can. Trust me. You guys are being played.
Best of luck from the boys at KA. If the merger does come you might want better representation.
DB the merger is already happening.
KA is fast approaching 2 years to command for new joiners and the training system looks as though it has been righted to achieve fast growth; which incidentally appears to be over CX routes. Penang has just started and Denpasar is not far away. Murmurs of other CX routes too.
The privileges you may expect from a merger of pilot groups appear to be able to be bought by KA pilots giving up certain items in their COS.
Yes, CX F/O's must be very unrepresented over your way. You appear to have given away growth and opportunity which was available for very little.
I said it years ago that KA pilots would have been stupid to merge with CX even in a fair and equitable manner. It's played out as predicted with rapid growth - which is now to the advantage of new joiners on C scale contracts and the kids they rip off the street and put straight into the RHS as MPL's. Why CX pilots would not have had the foresight to defend against this assault instead of barking away in stupidity about bottom of the list mergers?
KA is fast approaching 2 years to command for new joiners and the training system looks as though it has been righted to achieve fast growth; which incidentally appears to be over CX routes. Penang has just started and Denpasar is not far away. Murmurs of other CX routes too.
The privileges you may expect from a merger of pilot groups appear to be able to be bought by KA pilots giving up certain items in their COS.
Yes, CX F/O's must be very unrepresented over your way. You appear to have given away growth and opportunity which was available for very little.
I said it years ago that KA pilots would have been stupid to merge with CX even in a fair and equitable manner. It's played out as predicted with rapid growth - which is now to the advantage of new joiners on C scale contracts and the kids they rip off the street and put straight into the RHS as MPL's. Why CX pilots would not have had the foresight to defend against this assault instead of barking away in stupidity about bottom of the list mergers?
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D&N,
For some reason, whenever I read your posts I get the impression that you really are a CX pilot. Perhaps it is because you always seem to post about CX politics and never KA politics.
Please tell us about KA's recent payrise and how your new AFTLs are vastly superior to ours. Top of the HKAOA's shopping list has always been integration with KA so we can get access to your superior representation and superior T&C's, Bases and lifestyle rosters. It's the only thing discussed on a CX Flightdeck. (nah....just kidding)
For some reason, whenever I read your posts I get the impression that you really are a CX pilot. Perhaps it is because you always seem to post about CX politics and never KA politics.
Please tell us about KA's recent payrise and how your new AFTLs are vastly superior to ours. Top of the HKAOA's shopping list has always been integration with KA so we can get access to your superior representation and superior T&C's, Bases and lifestyle rosters. It's the only thing discussed on a CX Flightdeck. (nah....just kidding)
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I'll tell you about it Liam. It was a 3 year deal where we got 5% year 1 then 3% years 2 and 3. I think D and N feels that whatever the AOA negotiate may affect KA - I personally doubt it but what do I know I just fly an airbus? We should have answers in the next month or so on our next pay deal I would imagine.
As far as our superior terms and conditions go it may surprise you that in many cases they are just that, certainly for many B scalers. 25 year housing, travel fund, a great leave system and as far as lifestyle goes we get a good choice of preferences thanks and time to command much lower than yours.
Bases - well we used to have one but then CX decided to close that on us and merge it in to your freighter operation. It's horses for courses though isn't it? How many guys at CX are really going to ever see a base? Not many I suspect.
No we don't get W patterns and we don't get to go to New York or Chicago but you'll find most of us are quite happy with our lot. Two different companies with (particularly in CX's case) a host of different contracts. You pays your money and you takes your choice. No need to come over all superior about it.
As far as our superior terms and conditions go it may surprise you that in many cases they are just that, certainly for many B scalers. 25 year housing, travel fund, a great leave system and as far as lifestyle goes we get a good choice of preferences thanks and time to command much lower than yours.
Bases - well we used to have one but then CX decided to close that on us and merge it in to your freighter operation. It's horses for courses though isn't it? How many guys at CX are really going to ever see a base? Not many I suspect.
No we don't get W patterns and we don't get to go to New York or Chicago but you'll find most of us are quite happy with our lot. Two different companies with (particularly in CX's case) a host of different contracts. You pays your money and you takes your choice. No need to come over all superior about it.
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From what I know, you are correct in saying that many of KA's T&Cs are better than those of CX. So, then why is D&N reading our AOA newsletter?
If a merger is going to happen, nothing written here will, help, hinder or otherwise influence it.
Relax, enjoy and mind your own business mate. In another language you might say "fatti i cazzi tuoi".
That said, perhaps, the AOA and Dragon Pilot's Union could/should work closer together.
Cheers,
Soda
If a merger is going to happen, nothing written here will, help, hinder or otherwise influence it.
Relax, enjoy and mind your own business mate. In another language you might say "fatti i cazzi tuoi".
That said, perhaps, the AOA and Dragon Pilot's Union could/should work closer together.
Cheers,
Soda
Last edited by sodapop; 23rd Feb 2014 at 19:40.
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Enlighten me again
On how you treated our 747 pilots? It won't happen again I assure you.
I read your newsletters because I can and am interested as you are the bigger of the two companies but it appears we have faired better than you. I think it's because you might lack true resolve and CX knows how to manipulate your leadership and membership. You constantly jump up and down making demands but never really accomplish a thing. It's like watching breaking bad. You know what he his and you know it's wrong but you can't help but watch.
I wish our bigger brother would fight but you just won't. We can't fight for you but rest assured if a merger happens, and quite frankly I hope it doesn't judging by how you are treated and take it, we won't be stapled. You can't defend yourselves so you won't stop us getting our seniority.
Now this thread was not an us vs. you. Their is no us vs. you. Keep your eye on the topic please.
So again, how's that pay rise coming?
I read your newsletters because I can and am interested as you are the bigger of the two companies but it appears we have faired better than you. I think it's because you might lack true resolve and CX knows how to manipulate your leadership and membership. You constantly jump up and down making demands but never really accomplish a thing. It's like watching breaking bad. You know what he his and you know it's wrong but you can't help but watch.
I wish our bigger brother would fight but you just won't. We can't fight for you but rest assured if a merger happens, and quite frankly I hope it doesn't judging by how you are treated and take it, we won't be stapled. You can't defend yourselves so you won't stop us getting our seniority.
Now this thread was not an us vs. you. Their is no us vs. you. Keep your eye on the topic please.
So again, how's that pay rise coming?
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You read our newsletters because someone sends then to you, not because you are allowed.
I fly daily with the ex-Dragon 747 pilots. Most are fairly satisfied. Good guys and many friends. Most didn't, obviously, choose to remain in hkg flying daily into the atc chaos which is China.
When you say "how you treated our 747 pilots", I assume you mean how CX management treated them, otherwise, I would be inclined to tell you to FO.
Most had/have families in Europe and accepted an opportunity to remain living there.
What did your union do to stop it? Much the same as they will/can do nothing to stop you from being eventually stapled.
When/if we get a pay rise, I'm sure you'll be among the first to know. Living in Hkg with all of it's benefits must have taken away all your passion for real life. As mentioned above, relax and enjoy your great pilot package. But, since you're so bored, you should ask whoever forwards you the newsletters to give you his AOA info so you can start posting on the AOA forums.
When I'm next bored on a layover, maybe I'll ask my Emirates mates if I can post on their forum, how dull...
As to keeping an eye on the topic, I believe it was you who first made reference to a merger...see your initial post.
Get a life mate.
Cheers,
Soda
I fly daily with the ex-Dragon 747 pilots. Most are fairly satisfied. Good guys and many friends. Most didn't, obviously, choose to remain in hkg flying daily into the atc chaos which is China.
When you say "how you treated our 747 pilots", I assume you mean how CX management treated them, otherwise, I would be inclined to tell you to FO.
Most had/have families in Europe and accepted an opportunity to remain living there.
What did your union do to stop it? Much the same as they will/can do nothing to stop you from being eventually stapled.
When/if we get a pay rise, I'm sure you'll be among the first to know. Living in Hkg with all of it's benefits must have taken away all your passion for real life. As mentioned above, relax and enjoy your great pilot package. But, since you're so bored, you should ask whoever forwards you the newsletters to give you his AOA info so you can start posting on the AOA forums.
When I'm next bored on a layover, maybe I'll ask my Emirates mates if I can post on their forum, how dull...
As to keeping an eye on the topic, I believe it was you who first made reference to a merger...see your initial post.
Get a life mate.
Cheers,
Soda
Last edited by sodapop; 23rd Feb 2014 at 19:52.
F**k I hate willy wagging. Who has the biggest willy is pointless when we have the same goals. Divide and conquer is a well established tactic of CX management and some of you play into it beautifully. Big picture people, big picture and be aware of management trolls getting on here fueling the fire.
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I for one find working for KA repetitive , fatiguing and to be quite honest, boring. It's certainly does pay the bills, and I've yet to find anything worth resigning for,but it's become a particularly uninspiring place to work. And emotionally unrewarding.
I'd love to fly to NYC, breakfast at Balthazars, drink a few beers in soho, but that's not available. We have nothing thats even even a poor substitute. *I did not apply to CX. If I was younger I would prefer CX, period. KA has little lifestyle choices. We have monthly options but they rarely soften the mundane nature of our work. An old hand once told me you should never join a company primarily for a quick command. It's about more than this. Once the promotion arrives at KA, the frustrations of being a dead end career starts to dawn,
KA is certainly in the CX shadow. And 20 years ago, CX was THE place to work. The company. Well at least for pilots who could not achieve employment through their own countries legacy carriers. Working for the second *choice carrier L
in HK was still fine. There was ambition, and a certain community feel that KA was the undiscovered jem of an airline. However this is long gone, and since the takeover, the stagnation arrived. Yes we may go to Bali, or Penang, but who really cares, it's just because our job in china is comparatively so bad, and escape is better.*
The majority of CX pilots are now not the old gentry of past. Generally they are a mixture of low timers and career wannabes. This is fine, as the only way into CX now is the low ball, low TnCs job. Again fine if you are 25 with 2000 hours of*
air taxi. KA did attract the more mature, experienced pilot. Most joined for 1) Money, 2) opportunity. A relatively quick command follows for the right guys. No one fails command now at KA. Funny how commercialism interferes with the chopper brigade of the 2nd floor.
Anyway, we choose our paths in life and deep the rewards or suffer the consequences. As a percentage of expats in hk, the pilots are quite high. It's common for a bunch of pilots from CX or KA to be spotted drinking at the plaza.*
I believe the job has lost its prestige because to be honest there are too many pilots stuffed into a few *areas in hk, many on each others door step. The kudos is not there, and underhanded comments of who's best or who flies the Trippler are common.*
Regrettably, the ownership of KA by Swire has constipated the company. It's let the deadwood prosper on the 2nd floor, taking their bonus, smirking over their lattes in the KA cafe. Loving their polarized lifestyles of flying once a week and sailing on a weekend. I know this is the CX way, but at least your guys have a backbone to address the pilot community.*
We have no minimum guarentee HDP. But if we did I guess it would make sickness rates increas. The incentive is not there.*
If I was flying to NYC, Sydney, London or LAX, I think I'd feel more personal esteem.*
OK I agree I made the wrong choice to joking KA. And boy am I now paying the personal cost.*
I'd love to fly to NYC, breakfast at Balthazars, drink a few beers in soho, but that's not available. We have nothing thats even even a poor substitute. *I did not apply to CX. If I was younger I would prefer CX, period. KA has little lifestyle choices. We have monthly options but they rarely soften the mundane nature of our work. An old hand once told me you should never join a company primarily for a quick command. It's about more than this. Once the promotion arrives at KA, the frustrations of being a dead end career starts to dawn,
KA is certainly in the CX shadow. And 20 years ago, CX was THE place to work. The company. Well at least for pilots who could not achieve employment through their own countries legacy carriers. Working for the second *choice carrier L
in HK was still fine. There was ambition, and a certain community feel that KA was the undiscovered jem of an airline. However this is long gone, and since the takeover, the stagnation arrived. Yes we may go to Bali, or Penang, but who really cares, it's just because our job in china is comparatively so bad, and escape is better.*
The majority of CX pilots are now not the old gentry of past. Generally they are a mixture of low timers and career wannabes. This is fine, as the only way into CX now is the low ball, low TnCs job. Again fine if you are 25 with 2000 hours of*
air taxi. KA did attract the more mature, experienced pilot. Most joined for 1) Money, 2) opportunity. A relatively quick command follows for the right guys. No one fails command now at KA. Funny how commercialism interferes with the chopper brigade of the 2nd floor.
Anyway, we choose our paths in life and deep the rewards or suffer the consequences. As a percentage of expats in hk, the pilots are quite high. It's common for a bunch of pilots from CX or KA to be spotted drinking at the plaza.*
I believe the job has lost its prestige because to be honest there are too many pilots stuffed into a few *areas in hk, many on each others door step. The kudos is not there, and underhanded comments of who's best or who flies the Trippler are common.*
Regrettably, the ownership of KA by Swire has constipated the company. It's let the deadwood prosper on the 2nd floor, taking their bonus, smirking over their lattes in the KA cafe. Loving their polarized lifestyles of flying once a week and sailing on a weekend. I know this is the CX way, but at least your guys have a backbone to address the pilot community.*
We have no minimum guarentee HDP. But if we did I guess it would make sickness rates increas. The incentive is not there.*
If I was flying to NYC, Sydney, London or LAX, I think I'd feel more personal esteem.*
OK I agree I made the wrong choice to joking KA. And boy am I now paying the personal cost.*
What did your union do to stop it? Much the same as they will/can do nothing to stop you from being eventually stapled.
Tell 500 pilots that they are bottom of the list CX and to suck it up........I don't think so. This has been a 'Pandoras Box' for management, why do you think it has not been addressed before?
Maybe wise heads from both associations need to sit down and formulate a reasonable integration.
Contentious statements will only create resentment and drive the resolve of the Dragonair pilots for a fair deal.
Maybe some of the DPA war chest can pay for the American/US airways attorneys?
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Not sure what all of you are one about.
This CX VS KA nonsense is only come up as management is trying to create infighting and steer focus from pay negotiations.
If anything AOA and DPA should be negotiating with CX for the SAME increase to both. Stop this divide and conquer nonsense.
CX has better routes/lifestyle. KA has easier body clock flying and better COS.
Those are facts.
If there was integration, it would happen without our input as it always has with SWIRE.
End this nonsense, and lets get back to attacking the company directly. TOGETHER.
This CX VS KA nonsense is only come up as management is trying to create infighting and steer focus from pay negotiations.
If anything AOA and DPA should be negotiating with CX for the SAME increase to both. Stop this divide and conquer nonsense.
CX has better routes/lifestyle. KA has easier body clock flying and better COS.
Those are facts.
If there was integration, it would happen without our input as it always has with SWIRE.
End this nonsense, and lets get back to attacking the company directly. TOGETHER.
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D&N
To answer the question about the progres of the payrise. You read our newsletters just the same as me, therefore, you tell me!!
Your refer to us as "big brother" and assume we have some form of obligation to fight for you; we have no such obligation. HKAOA fights for its fee-paying members, just as the DPA fights for their fee-paying members. We do not compete and I make no comment on the competency (or otherwise) of the DPA and shall be grateful if you would afford the same courtesy to us.
You mention how your ex-747 pilots were treated. Do you believe they were Ill-treated by the HKAOA, if so how? I can honestly say i have never heard any CX wish ill on Dragonair pilots; we do not compete. Equally, I have never heard any CX pilots, except the ex-Dragonair pilots, express any interest in merging/integrating the two seniority lists. It holds no attraction for us and given you are on superior T&Cs, it should hold no attraction for you. So why are we even discussing it, it's in neither of our interests.
If you or anyone believes Dragonair T&Cs are superior, then good for you. Enjoy your superior T&Cs. If anyone believes EK T&Cs are superior, good for them. A rising tide raises all boats.
We had a membership led Contract Compliance vote in September last year. Did you or anyone else in the DPA do similar? It's all well and good talking solidarity, but why not demonsrate some, or would you prefer we do all the heavy lifting?
Your refer to us as "big brother" and assume we have some form of obligation to fight for you; we have no such obligation. HKAOA fights for its fee-paying members, just as the DPA fights for their fee-paying members. We do not compete and I make no comment on the competency (or otherwise) of the DPA and shall be grateful if you would afford the same courtesy to us.
You mention how your ex-747 pilots were treated. Do you believe they were Ill-treated by the HKAOA, if so how? I can honestly say i have never heard any CX wish ill on Dragonair pilots; we do not compete. Equally, I have never heard any CX pilots, except the ex-Dragonair pilots, express any interest in merging/integrating the two seniority lists. It holds no attraction for us and given you are on superior T&Cs, it should hold no attraction for you. So why are we even discussing it, it's in neither of our interests.
If you or anyone believes Dragonair T&Cs are superior, then good for you. Enjoy your superior T&Cs. If anyone believes EK T&Cs are superior, good for them. A rising tide raises all boats.
We had a membership led Contract Compliance vote in September last year. Did you or anyone else in the DPA do similar? It's all well and good talking solidarity, but why not demonsrate some, or would you prefer we do all the heavy lifting?
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You don't like Willy Wagging 404 Titan???
Really??
Here's news. The only way any of us will see an improvement to our COS is to argue our "assets" aren't competitive. While we can stand next to our KA/CX brothers and argue we're at a natural disadvantage that's a good thing.
If we merge onto the same "size" contract that will be a worry. CX will have us standing next to a local HKA employee in no time with our pants down around our ankles laughing at our requests for a free phalloplasty.
At the moment we're like 2 spoiled brats, individually after our parents attention. That's good. The moment our parents cotton on and start giving (and taking away) to both equally at exactly the same time will be the time to leave the family.
They're after housing. Divided we may not conquer but we maybe able to hold the fort. Combined we're screwed.
Btw Jizz, a thousand morons voted for "This is NOT a request for a pay rise" but a request to talk.
We've had nothing but talks for 6 months. These guys must be deliriously happy with their success.
Really??
Here's news. The only way any of us will see an improvement to our COS is to argue our "assets" aren't competitive. While we can stand next to our KA/CX brothers and argue we're at a natural disadvantage that's a good thing.
If we merge onto the same "size" contract that will be a worry. CX will have us standing next to a local HKA employee in no time with our pants down around our ankles laughing at our requests for a free phalloplasty.
At the moment we're like 2 spoiled brats, individually after our parents attention. That's good. The moment our parents cotton on and start giving (and taking away) to both equally at exactly the same time will be the time to leave the family.
They're after housing. Divided we may not conquer but we maybe able to hold the fort. Combined we're screwed.
Btw Jizz, a thousand morons voted for "This is NOT a request for a pay rise" but a request to talk.
We've had nothing but talks for 6 months. These guys must be deliriously happy with their success.
Last edited by Progress Wanchai; 24th Feb 2014 at 13:52.
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Liam,
Just give it a rest now, you're making a fool of yourself…read up on the DPA/Contract Compliance and the associated sackings/demotions/reinstatements before you come out with rubbish like that!
'CX/AOA doing all the heavy lifting' - what a joke!
Just give it a rest now, you're making a fool of yourself…read up on the DPA/Contract Compliance and the associated sackings/demotions/reinstatements before you come out with rubbish like that!
'CX/AOA doing all the heavy lifting' - what a joke!