Relief and the W crew
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Relief and the W crew
So your a relief pilot RQ or your an S/O and your getting a shafting on your rest , take a look at there roster and see if they are on W pattern roster , don't accept it ! just say no thats not acceptable or pick up the ph and take matters into your own hands.Just because they choose to commute and bypass normal rest requirements doesn't make it ok for them to shaft you, stick up for yourself and or report abuse ......
The Captain gets what he wants and the Relief Commander has to fit in.
The operating FO gets what he wants and the SO has to fit in.
( they don't have to do the same rest cycle )
After all the Relief crew are exactly that, RELIEF for the operating crew.
As long as the Captain and operating FO let their counterparts know beforehand then I see no problems.
Surely there must be a usual pattern of rest/work known to most crews on certain patterns by now???
Nothing stopping you emailing or calling the Captain and asking.......
As for W commuters?? It doesn't come into my consideration, all crew members are responsible to turn up for work adequately rested...so if they are a little more fatigued then its their problem and should not disadvantage other crew rest.....
In other words, if you can't handle W patterns then DON'T DO THEM.
The operating FO gets what he wants and the SO has to fit in.
( they don't have to do the same rest cycle )
After all the Relief crew are exactly that, RELIEF for the operating crew.
As long as the Captain and operating FO let their counterparts know beforehand then I see no problems.
Surely there must be a usual pattern of rest/work known to most crews on certain patterns by now???
Nothing stopping you emailing or calling the Captain and asking.......
As for W commuters?? It doesn't come into my consideration, all crew members are responsible to turn up for work adequately rested...so if they are a little more fatigued then its their problem and should not disadvantage other crew rest.....
In other words, if you can't handle W patterns then DON'T DO THEM.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 27th Jun 2013 at 07:52.
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I agree with the others. Goathead it doesn't matter if the other members are on Ws or not. as operating crew they get to pick the rest they want, as an SO or Relief FO your job do what's left. Its nice to know in advance but as relief you have to assume the worst rest. Its always been that way and always will, that's the job description. its even in the title "Relief Pilot"
Im relief and have been for too many years to count. I'm also on Ws and have been since joining, I for one never complain about whether the CPT takes the best rest or not, even if its my sector, hes the one that's name is on the CFP.
Flying with commuting guys can be great especially if they are on a different time zone from you. While commuting I was always offering to do the late night stuff as it was the same as an early morning for me, worked a charm.
If you don't like being Relief then request going onto the 330 or get a job flying 737s or 320s. If your an SO then you need a big attitude adjustment as your job is there to do the late night stuff, its not like your roster doesn't allow plenty of time to prepare for the duty!
Im relief and have been for too many years to count. I'm also on Ws and have been since joining, I for one never complain about whether the CPT takes the best rest or not, even if its my sector, hes the one that's name is on the CFP.
Flying with commuting guys can be great especially if they are on a different time zone from you. While commuting I was always offering to do the late night stuff as it was the same as an early morning for me, worked a charm.
If you don't like being Relief then request going onto the 330 or get a job flying 737s or 320s. If your an SO then you need a big attitude adjustment as your job is there to do the late night stuff, its not like your roster doesn't allow plenty of time to prepare for the duty!
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Let me put it another way then ....
Is it ok to shaft a relief crew member both ways so he/she works back of the clock both ways so you as W pattern commuter get the best rest to get back home, outside of the base your employed at whilst for example a HK based crew member does all the hard yards so you can achieve that , p##s off!
The majority of all W pattern crew are only interested in themselves and not the whole crew.....sure it does work out sometimes , probably quite alot, but....
the next time I am asked to work both ways back O the clock for a W pattern Capt whose commuting I'm going to tell him where to go...or call it in.
Is it ok to shaft a relief crew member both ways so he/she works back of the clock both ways so you as W pattern commuter get the best rest to get back home, outside of the base your employed at whilst for example a HK based crew member does all the hard yards so you can achieve that , p##s off!
The majority of all W pattern crew are only interested in themselves and not the whole crew.....sure it does work out sometimes , probably quite alot, but....
the next time I am asked to work both ways back O the clock for a W pattern Capt whose commuting I'm going to tell him where to go...or call it in.
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goathead, is English your first language?
Yes, he made a mistake that should get him fined by the "Spelling Police", but so did you.
Erm.. where? If you are referring to the lower-case start of the sentence, that is how he spells his nom-de-guerre.
A semi-literate post like that on a very widely-read internet forum doesn't help his credibility as an airline pilot, or advance his cause.
A semi-literate post like that on a very widely-read internet forum doesn't help his credibility as an airline pilot, or advance his cause.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 27th Jun 2013 at 09:48.
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Captain Dart
I'm so very sorry , but you see I'm very tired as I've just done both ways for an aforementioned capt.Please don't crucify me in my next training report , ill accept a 2 I'm sure you hand them out regularly..
I'm so very sorry , but you see I'm very tired as I've just done both ways for an aforementioned capt.Please don't crucify me in my next training report , ill accept a 2 I'm sure you hand them out regularly..
Don't worry, I don't train for them. Maybe a career with a short-haul airline may be a better option for you.
I presume that you have submitted an ASR-F?
I presume that you have submitted an ASR-F?
Last edited by Captain Dart; 27th Jun 2013 at 09:56.
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Goathead harden up!
Did you get called out for the last trip Goathead?
If you did and feel you are not rested for relief/so duties-
take matters in your own hands and go unfit for duty.
If it is a rostered trip then you have a problem.
How about you bid regional flying ! I assume you are on the Tripler.
Should be no problems.
If computer bidding ever comes in I'm sure you will accommodated
with a special bid selection just for you.
9:00 am sign on and home for dinner type rosters!
In the mean time have a big spoon of CEMENT and harden up!
O yes a long look in the mirror might also do the trick
If you did and feel you are not rested for relief/so duties-
take matters in your own hands and go unfit for duty.
If it is a rostered trip then you have a problem.
How about you bid regional flying ! I assume you are on the Tripler.
Should be no problems.
If computer bidding ever comes in I'm sure you will accommodated
with a special bid selection just for you.
9:00 am sign on and home for dinner type rosters!
In the mean time have a big spoon of CEMENT and harden up!
O yes a long look in the mirror might also do the trick
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Good luck calling the 3rd floor re how a CPT organises his rest, I feel you will be the one going for a visit and explaining why you are not doing your job. You are there to make sure the cpt is rested for the arrival. If he's on a different time zone that's your bad luck.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when they tear you a new one!
I would love to be a fly on the wall when they tear you a new one!
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I can't believe what I am reading from the Goat
If I am his captain and he wants to phone the Fleet Office because I didn't give him the rest he wanted, I would lend him my phone and dial the number for him. Actually i would piggyback him up there. Then sit back and watch as he is told to do the job the company is paying him to do or p**s off.
Must be Y generation
If I am his captain and he wants to phone the Fleet Office because I didn't give him the rest he wanted, I would lend him my phone and dial the number for him. Actually i would piggyback him up there. Then sit back and watch as he is told to do the job the company is paying him to do or p**s off.
Must be Y generation
short flights long nights
Can I just ask a question, what is a W pattern? I have never really heard that term, or perhaps I have under a different term.
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Goathead. If you are an ESL pilot please ignore this post.
If you are not... please go back to school and complete your 8th grade english before posting again.
Holy S#%t!!
If you are not... please go back to school and complete your 8th grade english before posting again.
Holy S#%t!!
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Goatherder
My dear chap, whilst I think this is most likely a wind-up, if not, I think you are simply having trouble understanding the difference between knowing your ****, and knowing you're ****. You certainly do not know the former.
As for rest, I allocate it as required to ensure the FO and myself are in decent condition for the approach. If it's an even split, good for you. If it's not and you work more than the others, get your big boy pants on and suck it up!
I don't allocate rest to be selfish, it's simply to ensure the pax and aircraft arrive as safely as possible.
If you can't see that, you're in the wrong job princess!
My dear chap, whilst I think this is most likely a wind-up, if not, I think you are simply having trouble understanding the difference between knowing your ****, and knowing you're ****. You certainly do not know the former.
As for rest, I allocate it as required to ensure the FO and myself are in decent condition for the approach. If it's an even split, good for you. If it's not and you work more than the others, get your big boy pants on and suck it up!
I don't allocate rest to be selfish, it's simply to ensure the pax and aircraft arrive as safely as possible.
If you can't see that, you're in the wrong job princess!
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And while you're at it, keep in mind that their costs are kept low by ensuring they're keeping non-rated SOs on Long-Haul flights who, to be brutally honest, are equally good at not touching anything and logging fuel checks regardless of what state of alert they may be in.
They're not there for their skills, experience or critical surveillance I'm afraid.
They're not there for their skills, experience or critical surveillance I'm afraid.
Last edited by quadspeed; 27th Jun 2013 at 14:13.
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Goat- you're an ass
You merely come across as a whining, disaffected FO on what is clearly the optimal fleet in the company as it is today.
With no intent to incite an Airbus VS Boeing war, I think most would agree that the 777 roster is about the best one can get in this job right now.
In 12 months of constant night flying I have not had bunk rest once, not once. I "rest" to the unmelodic clip clop bang clop clop clip of cabin crew heels banging the floor.
We too fly long hours, against the clock; if we get 2:40 rest we are lucky.
Very often it is multiple night sectors, total duty equalling (or close) that of 1 long haul sector, half of which YOU are in a segregated bunk for; fuming at your ****ty rest, the other half bitching to your offsider.
Want to know what crappy rosters and rest is like, come to the bus.
And don't ever question the Capt rest decisions. Be grateful you're getting some.
He/she has more to think about than your personal situation.
Don't like it....go elsewhere.
Dope
With no intent to incite an Airbus VS Boeing war, I think most would agree that the 777 roster is about the best one can get in this job right now.
In 12 months of constant night flying I have not had bunk rest once, not once. I "rest" to the unmelodic clip clop bang clop clop clip of cabin crew heels banging the floor.
We too fly long hours, against the clock; if we get 2:40 rest we are lucky.
Very often it is multiple night sectors, total duty equalling (or close) that of 1 long haul sector, half of which YOU are in a segregated bunk for; fuming at your ****ty rest, the other half bitching to your offsider.
Want to know what crappy rosters and rest is like, come to the bus.
And don't ever question the Capt rest decisions. Be grateful you're getting some.
He/she has more to think about than your personal situation.
Don't like it....go elsewhere.
Dope
Last edited by monster330; 27th Jun 2013 at 15:59.
