Hand shake nuisance
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against my better advice, i know ...
ASH1111, the understanding we have of the universe now isn't something that has just been dictated. It's actually the cumulative knowledge we've gained from thousands of years of asking and answering difficult questions.
If you are going to believe in the biblical model you can't just say "the bible says", you actually have to answer those same difficult questions in a way that fits your model.
For example, we know the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant. Experiments have proven it repeatedly, and the theories of both special and general relativity require it to be constant. No experiment has ever been able to throw doubt on either theory.
Moving on then... we can probably agree that the speed of light is a constant.
In 1909 an astronomer noted that something called "redshift" occurs in other galaxies. Redshift is a form of doppler effect, wherein the waves of something moving towards you get squished together, while the waves of something moving away get stretched out. You hear it with sound waves when a car goes past.
A later astronomer, Hubble, noted that all galaxies have redshift. This means they're moving away from us. He surmised that in fact all galaxies are separating, and that space itself is expanding. How do you explain this phenomenon? Knowing as much as we do about light and how it works, do you think this is explainable any other way?
Taking that understanding, scientists began working backwards. The amount of redshift was calculable, that means the rate of expansion is calculable too. And if you extend that rate back? You get close to fourteen billion years to get to a point where it's... a point.
Other scientists came up with theories to prove or disprove this possibility. It was radical at the time, everyone just assumed the universe always was and always would be. No one successfully disproved it. But people were able to model the "big bang" as it became called, and the model predicted a form of radiation would still persist in the universe, like the "echo" of the big bang. That echo is a "black body spectrum" of a very specific nature. It's basically a graph.
In the 70s, some researchers were trying to do some experiments with radio wave measurement from weather balloons. No matter what they did there was some interference from a source. They could not account for it in all of their testing and research. They had stumbled on it - the radioactive echo of the big bang. The black body profile matched exactly. How do YOU account for this "buzz", known as Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation? What does the bible say about it?
We know how atoms work. We have something called the "Standard Model", which explains the workings of matter and energy to such a degree that it's obviously outright correct. It's made predictions (such as the Higgs Boson most recently, but many others previously) and they've always been borne out. So we know all this. We use the knowledge to build all sorts of things. We use the knowledge we have to create bombs of unthinkable power. We use the knowledge to treat people who have cancer and other diseases. We even use it to create clocks so accurate we can measure how much gravity distorts time itself.
Are you actually telling me that you think we don't understand this principle well enough to classify rocks? And more particularly, are you actually telling me that you're discarding (only) that aspect of this knowledge because it conflicts with the "science" in a 3000+ year old religious book?
Even aside from the billions of years of time, 6000 years is stunningly unsupportable. There is a single tree that's 9550 years old.
You can determine from its rings when there were good years, years with a large volcano, years with drought, etc, and then cross reference them to get a remarkably good picture of life and time.
Lots of things work like that. There are areas of sedimentary rock, for example, where seasonal thaws and freeze cycles change the deposited materials, forming clear bands of colour for every year. These bands are called "varves". Varves can be traced clearly back for around 52,000 years. Ice does the same thing. Deposited ice forms clear layers annually. These lines can be used to determine lots of fun things, like carbon levels, oxygen, pollen counts.. but more relevantly, you can just count them. There's one single ice core that goes back through 800,000 years of history.
Basically, if you want to present your view as legitimate in any sense you need to explain all of this stuff. You need to undo our understanding of nuclear physics, geography, genetics and geology. You need to provide a better answer, a better explanation for things like the CMBR.
But more than that.. you need to provide a reason why God created a world in 6 days, but then created it in such a way that it looks like it was created billions of years ago. You need to explain why there are stars we can see that are billions of light years away. That God created them with light on their way to us, almost ready to hit us, is I suppose possible. But it seems absurd.
You also need to explain why to give us somewhere to worship him, God chose to create a universe 98 billion light years across, containing roughly 1024 stars in 200 billion galaxies. Why he chose to make black holes, pulsars, magnetars, white dwarfs and supernova...
Also, you need to explain (just because I've always wondered) why it took the same amount of time to create all of that, every swirling galaxy, colliding star, gas nebula and supermassive black hole, as it did to make fish and birds.
"Creation Science" is an industry and an agenda. They are lying. It's that simple. There's no possibility that they haven't been corrected on outright factual errors and yet they keep repeating the same nonsense. I see it all over Answers in Genesis. Lies about "space dust on the moon" or "rapid fossilisation" or the Grand Canyon. These things are easily debunked, and have been so many times.
This isn't just a matter of interpretation or worldview. The facts when viewed objectively have lead to a conclusion.
TL;DR ****, man, read a science book or something.
If you are going to believe in the biblical model you can't just say "the bible says", you actually have to answer those same difficult questions in a way that fits your model.
For example, we know the speed of light in a vacuum is a constant. Experiments have proven it repeatedly, and the theories of both special and general relativity require it to be constant. No experiment has ever been able to throw doubt on either theory.
Moving on then... we can probably agree that the speed of light is a constant.
In 1909 an astronomer noted that something called "redshift" occurs in other galaxies. Redshift is a form of doppler effect, wherein the waves of something moving towards you get squished together, while the waves of something moving away get stretched out. You hear it with sound waves when a car goes past.
A later astronomer, Hubble, noted that all galaxies have redshift. This means they're moving away from us. He surmised that in fact all galaxies are separating, and that space itself is expanding. How do you explain this phenomenon? Knowing as much as we do about light and how it works, do you think this is explainable any other way?
Taking that understanding, scientists began working backwards. The amount of redshift was calculable, that means the rate of expansion is calculable too. And if you extend that rate back? You get close to fourteen billion years to get to a point where it's... a point.
Other scientists came up with theories to prove or disprove this possibility. It was radical at the time, everyone just assumed the universe always was and always would be. No one successfully disproved it. But people were able to model the "big bang" as it became called, and the model predicted a form of radiation would still persist in the universe, like the "echo" of the big bang. That echo is a "black body spectrum" of a very specific nature. It's basically a graph.
In the 70s, some researchers were trying to do some experiments with radio wave measurement from weather balloons. No matter what they did there was some interference from a source. They could not account for it in all of their testing and research. They had stumbled on it - the radioactive echo of the big bang. The black body profile matched exactly. How do YOU account for this "buzz", known as Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation? What does the bible say about it?
We know how atoms work. We have something called the "Standard Model", which explains the workings of matter and energy to such a degree that it's obviously outright correct. It's made predictions (such as the Higgs Boson most recently, but many others previously) and they've always been borne out. So we know all this. We use the knowledge to build all sorts of things. We use the knowledge we have to create bombs of unthinkable power. We use the knowledge to treat people who have cancer and other diseases. We even use it to create clocks so accurate we can measure how much gravity distorts time itself.
Are you actually telling me that you think we don't understand this principle well enough to classify rocks? And more particularly, are you actually telling me that you're discarding (only) that aspect of this knowledge because it conflicts with the "science" in a 3000+ year old religious book?
Even aside from the billions of years of time, 6000 years is stunningly unsupportable. There is a single tree that's 9550 years old.
You can determine from its rings when there were good years, years with a large volcano, years with drought, etc, and then cross reference them to get a remarkably good picture of life and time.
Lots of things work like that. There are areas of sedimentary rock, for example, where seasonal thaws and freeze cycles change the deposited materials, forming clear bands of colour for every year. These bands are called "varves". Varves can be traced clearly back for around 52,000 years. Ice does the same thing. Deposited ice forms clear layers annually. These lines can be used to determine lots of fun things, like carbon levels, oxygen, pollen counts.. but more relevantly, you can just count them. There's one single ice core that goes back through 800,000 years of history.
Basically, if you want to present your view as legitimate in any sense you need to explain all of this stuff. You need to undo our understanding of nuclear physics, geography, genetics and geology. You need to provide a better answer, a better explanation for things like the CMBR.
But more than that.. you need to provide a reason why God created a world in 6 days, but then created it in such a way that it looks like it was created billions of years ago. You need to explain why there are stars we can see that are billions of light years away. That God created them with light on their way to us, almost ready to hit us, is I suppose possible. But it seems absurd.
You also need to explain why to give us somewhere to worship him, God chose to create a universe 98 billion light years across, containing roughly 1024 stars in 200 billion galaxies. Why he chose to make black holes, pulsars, magnetars, white dwarfs and supernova...
Also, you need to explain (just because I've always wondered) why it took the same amount of time to create all of that, every swirling galaxy, colliding star, gas nebula and supermassive black hole, as it did to make fish and birds.
"Creation Science" is an industry and an agenda. They are lying. It's that simple. There's no possibility that they haven't been corrected on outright factual errors and yet they keep repeating the same nonsense. I see it all over Answers in Genesis. Lies about "space dust on the moon" or "rapid fossilisation" or the Grand Canyon. These things are easily debunked, and have been so many times.
This isn't just a matter of interpretation or worldview. The facts when viewed objectively have lead to a conclusion.
TL;DR ****, man, read a science book or something.
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chill guys -
trying to talk sense into a religiously deluded man is like trying to play chess with a pigeon.
No matter how good your game is, the pigeon will will only knock the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it is victorious.
trying to talk sense into a religiously deluded man is like trying to play chess with a pigeon.
No matter how good your game is, the pigeon will will only knock the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it is victorious.
And there in is the crux of the argument. You can't rationalize with someone who has the brain of a pigeon.
And back to the subject at hand I hate it also, especially the brutish Americans who insist on crushing my digits.
I would rather just give a bow with appropriate verbal greeting and be done with it.
I would rather just give a bow with appropriate verbal greeting and be done with it.
Last edited by Koan; 18th May 2013 at 01:41.
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Koan,
That's a great idea! Then, I don't have to worry about "crushing your (tiny) digits" or catching your bird flu. We brutes prefer you keep those lovely viruses in Asia anyhow. Handshakes are meant to show solidarity. It's obvious we don't have much of that as a crew these days.
Cheers!
That's a great idea! Then, I don't have to worry about "crushing your (tiny) digits" or catching your bird flu. We brutes prefer you keep those lovely viruses in Asia anyhow. Handshakes are meant to show solidarity. It's obvious we don't have much of that as a crew these days.
Cheers!
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Has science proven yet that God doesn't exist? The answer is no. Will it ever, highly doubtful. For if they ever claim to have proof that God doesn't exist then they have in-fact made themselves God and thus have become a living personification of all that science has tried to destroy. This is the essence of the problem, the non-believers are using science as a weapon not as it should which is in harmony with spirituality, the irony of this is that in the end Science itself becomes a religion and the cold men and women at the helm lead by ego and a desperate materialism attempt to destroy what for most people is a belief born out of pure faith and a longing for something better. Science on the other hand lays out the cards coldly on the table and basically says expect nothing. I know which I'd prefer!
Last edited by Threethirty; 18th May 2013 at 04:34.
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an honest question for you believers.
Imagine you were born in another family, in another country.
A muslim family, for example.
Do you really think that you would have believed in the same God as you do now?
Don' t you think that your religious view is only a reflect of your education?
Do you believe in Adam, Eve, the evil snake? Do you refute evidences that men evolved from apes?
Do you just believe in a god, or do you believe in all the stories that come with?
I can see why people want to believe. Life after death, creation of the universe, etc... all impossible to prove one way or the other. But some stories from the bible don't hold any sense!
(I know, it's more than one question, but still...)
Imagine you were born in another family, in another country.
A muslim family, for example.
Do you really think that you would have believed in the same God as you do now?
Don' t you think that your religious view is only a reflect of your education?
Do you believe in Adam, Eve, the evil snake? Do you refute evidences that men evolved from apes?
Do you just believe in a god, or do you believe in all the stories that come with?
I can see why people want to believe. Life after death, creation of the universe, etc... all impossible to prove one way or the other. But some stories from the bible don't hold any sense!
(I know, it's more than one question, but still...)
+1 for the pigeon analogy!!
Christ on a trike, I don't care what fairy tales you believe in, that sh!t is funny !!
PS. Concur - stop it with the wet cuttlefish handshakes already.
Christ on a trike, I don't care what fairy tales you believe in, that sh!t is funny !!
PS. Concur - stop it with the wet cuttlefish handshakes already.
A handshake has been traditionally a sign of establishing a bond, trust, friendship and agreement.
I would feel somewhat worried if a crewmember was reluctant to shake hands prior to carrying out a mission...
I would feel somewhat worried if a crewmember was reluctant to shake hands prior to carrying out a mission...
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Swire Princes to the left of me, Pilot Princesses to the right here I am stuck in the middle with you.
From an early age, I was taught to extend my hand to people I meet. Apparently it is called manners. Something I am teaching my 7 year old. I am also teaching him to make sure he washes his hands before he eats.
Guys don't go on about hygiene. How many of us have had a quick scratch of the sweaty arse crack/ testicular area, or a quick pick of a nose and then shook the hands of someone- whether it be in work or out of work?
Nothing to moan about these days so we rely on the trivial things like handshakes? Sign of things getting better at CX???
From an early age, I was taught to extend my hand to people I meet. Apparently it is called manners. Something I am teaching my 7 year old. I am also teaching him to make sure he washes his hands before he eats.
Guys don't go on about hygiene. How many of us have had a quick scratch of the sweaty arse crack/ testicular area, or a quick pick of a nose and then shook the hands of someone- whether it be in work or out of work?
Nothing to moan about these days so we rely on the trivial things like handshakes? Sign of things getting better at CX???
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Betpump5
"Guys don't go on about hygiene. How many of us have had a quick scratch of the sweaty arse crack/ testicular area, or a quick pick of a nose and then shook the hands of someone- whether it be in work or out of work?"
Are you teaching your 7-year old all that as well? And you want me to shake your hand?
Are you teaching your 7-year old all that as well? And you want me to shake your hand?
Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 19th May 2013 at 00:52.
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A long, long time ago, ... in a different company from today, ... it was written in the cabin crew procedures manual (was it the Vol 5?), that; until cabin crew had formally introduced themselves to cockpit crew, they needed to address them (us) as "Sir". There were no "Madams", ... as it were!. After introducing themselves, they could then use first names!
With the passing of time, this "procedure" has evolved into the handshake tradition we have today.
There is almost always an explanation.
Cheers
PS: One more fan for the pigeon analogy!
With the passing of time, this "procedure" has evolved into the handshake tradition we have today.
There is almost always an explanation.
Cheers
PS: One more fan for the pigeon analogy!
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Fly123456
Sorry for the delay to your questions. Not trying to shirk duty here, but instead of giving you a glass of water, here's the well.
Bible Questions Answered
Drink up, it's all there.
Sorry for the delay to your questions. Not trying to shirk duty here, but instead of giving you a glass of water, here's the well.
Bible Questions Answered
Drink up, it's all there.
Brilliant!!
Great website, thanks Ash!
Thanks to you I now have the justification to put to death my neighbour for wearing clothes made of two different materials ( cotton polyester mix... the filthy heathen).
Leviticus 19:19.
If only more people were aware of this great resource available to them.
Praise Jeebus!
( Cue the pigeon)
Thanks to you I now have the justification to put to death my neighbour for wearing clothes made of two different materials ( cotton polyester mix... the filthy heathen).
Leviticus 19:19.
If only more people were aware of this great resource available to them.
Praise Jeebus!
( Cue the pigeon)
cxorist,
To avoid any unintended negative insinuation I should have said "my brutish
fellow Americans". Some of our guys lift weights like five days a week, and I'm yoga and tofu type. I do have a technique to deal with the real offenders.
Give 'em the limp fish and take the pain. Then they never crush my hand again. Of course handshakes are a social norm I can deal with, I just wish we could all wai each other instead. I once sniffled my way through a SIM with a little scratchy voice. After the debrief when extending my hand to the instructor I was impressed he initiated a street style elbow-bump instead. He admitted he did not want whatever hit me.
To avoid any unintended negative insinuation I should have said "my brutish
fellow Americans". Some of our guys lift weights like five days a week, and I'm yoga and tofu type. I do have a technique to deal with the real offenders.
Give 'em the limp fish and take the pain. Then they never crush my hand again. Of course handshakes are a social norm I can deal with, I just wish we could all wai each other instead. I once sniffled my way through a SIM with a little scratchy voice. After the debrief when extending my hand to the instructor I was impressed he initiated a street style elbow-bump instead. He admitted he did not want whatever hit me.
Last edited by Koan; 20th May 2013 at 04:07.