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Tales from Kai Tak - 15 Years On

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Tales from Kai Tak - 15 Years On

Old 18th Mar 2020, 16:00
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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KA

Originally Posted by Paul852 View Post
I don't think KA (DragonAir)have ever operated 747s. I guess the poster meant KE (Korean Airlines), who had several.

Yes they did Paul... Not for that many years but they did !!!
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 16:03
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps a few years before your time Paul.

Dragonair operated 8. B-KAA to B-KAI, a combination of 747 freighters. -200, -300(F), -400(F).
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 17:36
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Old 18th Mar 2020, 17:55
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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B-KAA & KAB, ex SQ 747-300 Combi's entered service with KA in late 2001.
B-KAC, ex MAS 747-300 Combi entered KA service in 2002
B-KAD, ex CAL 747-200F entered KA service in 2004.
The 5 744's were all former SQ aircraft converted to cargo by SIAEC in Singapore.
The KA Cargo operation was eventually absorbed into CX Cargo sometime after CX took over KA in late 2006.

Last edited by CV880; 19th Mar 2020 at 15:28.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 00:36
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Equally as interesting as the IGS if not more so was the CC NDB ( twin NDB) approach in marginal weather. This was rarely in use and only if the IGS was down, usually awaiting flight calibration by the FAA Jetstar in those days.

I can still recall a United or maybe it was a Northwest 747 classic reporting at ELATO and ATC lady clearing the aircraft to CC for the twin NDB approach rwy 13.
"Say what?" in a Texas drawl, "ma'am I haven't done an NDB approach in 20 years, request clearance to Taipei" And off he went.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 08:56
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Yes the CC NDB was an eye opener when I arrived bright eyed and bushy tailed in the '80s. As locally based pilots we had the advantage of doing the approach on base training in VMC with a chalkboard brief and a full debrief before we ever had to do it in anger. Without going through logbooks I think I did around 5 or 6 in low cloud, several on the 707, which required a bit of anticipation of the turn with a stiff South Westerly wind up the chuff. 1200 ft across CC, 800ft minimums IIRC.

It was also in the mid 80s that we stopped doing harbour circuits on base training, as the good burghers of Mid Levels and the Peak were somewhat concerned to be looking down on aircraft going past their windows. You had to be quick getting the approach checks out of the way downwind, it was not very long.

It was good flying.

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Old 19th Mar 2020, 09:52
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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Yes - very interesting flying.

My first intiation to the CC NDB approach was in VC10s back in the '60s. I remember some eye-opening approaches in bad weather. Flying up from Cheung Chau towards Stonecutters in low cloud with the windscreen wipers zip-zapping away, it was like flying through a letter-box slit - hills close on either side, solid cloud only a few feet above and the sea not far below. It was a real team effort.

Does anyone have an old CC NDB approach chart they could post here?
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 21:26
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Kai Tak 1997


Kai Tak 1997

From the early '80s an abbreviated version of that approach was flown in good weather. From the east, TH was passed at 7,000 ft. then the aircraft was cleared "for the visual step-down" and great care had to be exercised to avoid embarrassment if the speed was kept too high for too long! Approaching from the southwest enabled a much higher speed to be carried into the western harbour provided one was low enough at CH. 300 kts up the harbour at 2,000 ft was quite common/normal.

Last edited by Meikleour; 19th Mar 2020 at 22:22. Reason: added text
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 21:50
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Fantastic. I had kept those jepp approach plates from our sim back then but don't have them anymore.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 22:02
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Ah my memory was bad I see. 1040 as MDA and SC not below 800. But the missed approach at 5.5 CH was perhaps a little optimistic in horizontal rain and as long as we could see the surface features we were legal to continue. And it was easier from the right hand seat as you can see by the final turn angle. Night was tricky for those not familiar especially in reduced visibility and there were one or two out of town airlines that got a bit lost.

I remember the American pilot story, it may even have been back to Pan Am days, but it certainly happened. Smartest move of the day by that pilot, respect.
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Old 20th Mar 2020, 09:40
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Thanks Meikleour - it certainly brings back memories!
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 06:28
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Originally Posted by anxiao View Post
Ah my memory was bad I see. 1040 as MDA and SC not below 800. But the missed approach at 5.5 CH was perhaps a little optimistic in horizontal rain and as long as we could see the surface features we were legal to continue. And it was easier from the right hand seat as you can see by the final turn angle. Night was tricky for those not familiar especially in reduced visibility and there were one or two out of town airlines that got a bit lost.

I remember the American pilot story, it may even have been back to Pan Am days, but it certainly happened. Smartest move of the day by that pilot, respect.
Not just out of town airlines😜
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 18:43
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Wobbly, you just triggered a memory, yes there was a Tristar that turned right at Green Island thinking he was over Stone Cutters. No harm done apart from a uniform trouser change but it was just as well that there was still the 16 storey height limit on Tsim Sha Tsui from what I recall...

No doubt there was much San Mig consumed in the Flying Club that evening.

Edited to add, I have just noticed that the Jepp plate above is the CH VOR approach. Eeee Luxury. The CC/SC double NDB approach probably had higher limits as one of the NDBs usually pointed at the nearest thunderstorm.
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 19:53
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There were two incidents that night, in the space of around 30 minutes, the other being the TriStar that turned the wrong way in the CH hold........
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 22:25
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And on takeoff Runway 13 had some back course localizer procedure where in the old round dial planes you could get reverse sensing if you didn't flip some switch or dial in a reciprocal course.

Or, so they tell me...
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 22:38
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Airbubba: You departed 13 with the runway 31 ILS tuned and displayed. Therefore it was not a backbeam procedure and the sensing remained in the correct sense.

You were flying the 31 ILS AWAY from the airfield! Happy days and this was carried out on every check in the sim.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 00:20
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......indeed it was Meikleour. Normally to then intercept the 104' radial from CH.
Happy days.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 06:37
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Originally Posted by LongTimeInCX View Post
......indeed it was Meikleour. Normally to then intercept the 104' radial from CH.
Happy days.
There was a visual step down at night that went awry. After that we changed the anti skid test (i think). The Captain used to look up to test it. If my memory serves me the FO was PF and mistook HK Island for KLN. Looking back on those days it seems we were quite “bold”. There but for the grace of god or lady luck.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 07:17
  #79 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
I think you will find KA were not operating 747s when Kai Tak was still opened, in fact it was after 2002.
It was definitely a Korean 747. I wasn’t there in 2002.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 11:17
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Callsign confusion.

KA = Dragonair (now cathaydragon)
KE = Korean Air

You're welcome.
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