Thursday night diversions CLK
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Thursday night diversions CLK
Nice lightning show last night. How many diversions were there? CX 722 spent the night in Canton. Minimum fuel and maximum duty days have a price.
It does seem rather short sighted (if you can call a corporate attack that started in 1991 short!) to put an entire workforce offside. Perhaps the thought is that the odd few tonnes carried that could have been left behind is far cheaper than giving Aircrew a common salary, a bit of respect and a share in the profits they contribute so much to. How about never again using the phrase 'whichever is lower'. The pure mechanics of an aircrew career deal us a fatal blow when compared to a corporate career. Any Manager worth his salt can move within the same industry fairly easily and would not have to start again as the 'graduate tea boy' - indeed he may be head hunted for promotion. Unfortunately, aircrew do not have anything like the same options so the workforces tend to stay where they are and become ever more bitter towards those who 'manage' them. A consistent theme in all the 'Undercover Boss' programmes around these days is that people are pretty good types generally and react far better to being valued than they do to being despised or taken for granted (obviously). Perfect opportunity you'd think to do some proper managing at CX. I don't think any of the Junior managers would have the nerve to suggest such a thing because they'd be lynched by the likes of our Management caricature. Pity. Here's to his bonus!
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Thought this thread was about the lightning show last night. Found myself with front row seats to the show last night on departure, scary at the same time exciting staff.
I actually wondered how guys were getting in with the squall all the way to DONKI
I actually wondered how guys were getting in with the squall all the way to DONKI
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You are right UA405. This thread was about the lightning show, but at lightning speed with reply number one, the point was mis-understood. I have since heard there were numerous diversions and Shenzen was refusing aircraft due lack of parking space.
Last edited by valhalla634; 29th Mar 2013 at 17:01.
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CX722 KUL –HKG on March 28 was diverted to CAN for a refueling stop due to being in the holding pattern for approx 1 hour.
Upon our arrival in CAN at approx. 6:30pm, the captain informed the passengers that this will be a short stop of around 2 hours while we refuel and depart to HKG.
After 2 hours, the refueling was completed and the captain made a second announcement, that we would have to wait another a little longer as now HKG was closed. By this time I suspected that the flight crew would be out of hours very soon and that a new flight crew would be required. Sure enough, within the next hour the captain made the announcement that “we are now out of hours” and we are talking with CX about the situation. About 1 hour later, new announcement “we are arranging with the Chinese flight authorities to allow us to send a plane from HKG to take you there, this make take 2-3 hours”.
After a another hour, “the Chinese have agreed to sending a plane to collect you, it will be here in 2 hours”
Another hour goes by, “the Chinese have changed their minds so there will be no flight and now we are trying to book hotels in Guangzhou for you as soon as possible”
Another hour later approx. 2 or 3 am “The Chinese will not allow any passengers to disembark as the terminals in CAN are full with passengers from all the diverted flights and the hotels in Guangzhou are full. Please make yourselves as comfortable as possible as you will be sleeping on board tonight. CX are aware of the situation and working on a solution”. Fortunately the flight was not full and there were many spare seats.
After another 4-5 hours, next announcement “a new flight crew will arrive in CAN at 9:30am and we will have you back in HKG asap”.
Eventually we land in HKG 12:40pm, 17 hours after the original arrival time.
Upon our arrival in CAN at approx. 6:30pm, the captain informed the passengers that this will be a short stop of around 2 hours while we refuel and depart to HKG.
After 2 hours, the refueling was completed and the captain made a second announcement, that we would have to wait another a little longer as now HKG was closed. By this time I suspected that the flight crew would be out of hours very soon and that a new flight crew would be required. Sure enough, within the next hour the captain made the announcement that “we are now out of hours” and we are talking with CX about the situation. About 1 hour later, new announcement “we are arranging with the Chinese flight authorities to allow us to send a plane from HKG to take you there, this make take 2-3 hours”.
After a another hour, “the Chinese have agreed to sending a plane to collect you, it will be here in 2 hours”
Another hour goes by, “the Chinese have changed their minds so there will be no flight and now we are trying to book hotels in Guangzhou for you as soon as possible”
Another hour later approx. 2 or 3 am “The Chinese will not allow any passengers to disembark as the terminals in CAN are full with passengers from all the diverted flights and the hotels in Guangzhou are full. Please make yourselves as comfortable as possible as you will be sleeping on board tonight. CX are aware of the situation and working on a solution”. Fortunately the flight was not full and there were many spare seats.
After another 4-5 hours, next announcement “a new flight crew will arrive in CAN at 9:30am and we will have you back in HKG asap”.
Eventually we land in HKG 12:40pm, 17 hours after the original arrival time.
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Sure, China should not be like this, but it is. We know this already. Question is, why does an airline that knows this, that got through this every time a plane diverts to ZGGG, continue to use that airport as an alternate? That is what I would be asking as a passenger.
The problem is that CAN seem to actively discourage diversions and makes life as difficult as possible. This is known and the airport is the last choice for an alternate. We only file it as a last resort. But if HKG is out, Macsu is probably as well, and Shenzhen has no more parking space, then you have few other options.
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If the wx at dest is iffy you need a wx alternate. If the wx at dest is good all that's required is a crash alternate. Unfortunately with poor wx forecasting and even worse ops planning many flights are arriving with few options. However, carry cfp fuel and divert, at least some of our ac have crew bunks, and then let the vast army of office workers sort the mess out.
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For Hong Kong based airines, try Xiamen. On a similar occasion, when most aircraft were diverting to Guangzhou, we were the only crew to choose Xiamen. It has engineering support and the helpful airport authority allowed the passengers to go to the terminal, which not only kept them happy, but allowed us to declare split duty. Ours was the first diverted aircraft to land back in Hong Kong.
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One big problem is not the choice of diversion alternates, but actually getting the ATC clearance to get there As proven on two black ATC days last year. One cannot simply opt out of HKG, request a nice little vector to a convenient STAR waypoint on the approach of one's choice. HK ATC gets overloaded and a/c get stuck in holding patterns with the Fuel Mayday being the final trump card. TCAS saved the day on one of those days, too. Or not really, as they would have missed by a few feet anyway!
There will be more black ATC days this summer. Let's hope someone does not run out of panic buttons to press to get the aircraft on the ground safely.
There will be more black ATC days this summer. Let's hope someone does not run out of panic buttons to press to get the aircraft on the ground safely.
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It happened last year..Then we were given 60 min rec extra,now it seems 30 to 45 min is the cfp mandate..
Guys these are the times to load more gas,not the gin clear days..Ops dont fly these A/C day in day out..We do..put on the gas you think you need..
Regionally its a no brainer..
Guys these are the times to load more gas,not the gin clear days..Ops dont fly these A/C day in day out..We do..put on the gas you think you need..
Regionally its a no brainer..
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It happened last year..Then we were given 60 min rec extra,now it seems 30 to 45 min is the cfp mandate..
Guys these are the times to load more gas,not the gin clear days..Ops dont fly these A/C day in day out..We do..put on the gas you think you need..
Regionally its a no brainer..
Guys these are the times to load more gas,not the gin clear days..Ops dont fly these A/C day in day out..We do..put on the gas you think you need..
Regionally its a no brainer..
We all know how much sway big business has with the HK government. If the bomb-burst of CX/KA aircraft diversions from HK to places like ZGSZ, ZGGG, ZSAM, RCKH etc was to start happening twice a week, the pax complaints in the press would be possible to ignore, and CX/KA/Swire/CAAC would be all over the HK governent, both publicly & privately. Only then will there be genuine systemic improvements.
CX do a cost-benefit analysis. They accept a certain percentage of flights will divert when CFP is carried. As long as that is cheaper (totalled over a year) than giving every single arrival into HK another 15 min REC EXTRA, then things won't change. What they count on is for us to be destination minded & carry some extra when necessary.
It's a chain of events. Effective today, we should always carry CFP - no more. If that's not enough & too many people end up elsewhere, they'll raise the standard REC EXTRA. If that gets too expensive they'll take it up with the HK Government.
And before anyone starts casting "unprofessional" accusations, I'm not espousing less than CFP (unlike some STCs). I'm definitely not suggesting ignoring the requirement to always have fuel to go somewhere & land (quite the opposite). Take CFP - if you need to divert, then do it.