Too many SO's at CX?
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As soon as theses kids see the right seat, it'll be see ya' later HKG
Ie if an airline says you need min 300 P1 plus 1200 P1U/S (1500) before starting a command course I'm afraid they're off to fly 250hrs at their own expense.
So many of the lazy z gen won't actually leave as they will hang around for command but then the seniority handcuffs will have taken hold.
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The majority of airline and corporate pilots in the USA are retiring in the next 5-7 years. Over 50,000 retirements. All the flight schools are training pilots who are from overseas and intend to return to non-American airlines. We've talked this story for years and years, but finally there will be pressure to attract qualified pilots. For once we can order our eggs sunny side up. CX will simply pay what they have to, as with all airlines. The seniority list system of airlines is the only drawback to the overall picture. Bottom line, nationality likely won't play an issue in hiring for airlines in need of crew, and quality of lifestyle and stability of the airline will be the two major factors pilots factor when making their career moves.
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Those who accepted the terms & conditions for the iCadet / C-Scale package deserve no sympathy. They went in knowing full well of what they were agreeing to, and if they didn't then the old saying "A fool and his money are easily parted" rings a bell.
To call on the AOA to improve their conditions is insulting to those of us who did the right thing and turned the job down while the AOA did little or nothing but some lame words in their updates. The AOA sat back and allowed this to happen because it didn't affect their own remuneration. Could they of done something (anything?) that would affect change? Who knows? Because they did absolutely no identifying action anywhere.
Those who signed up for and thus condoned C-Scale have no right to demand more than what they asked for.
As per the predicted recruitment drive in the US, C-Scale could raise and show it's true ramifications. If not now then eventually it will. But please don't ask for sympathy or more than what they asked or agreed to. I find it extremely arrogant to so severely undermine the industry and then seek those conditions that they forwent that were the backbone or premise of the entire job they begged for, all at the expense of others who stood against it.
To call on the AOA to improve their conditions is insulting to those of us who did the right thing and turned the job down while the AOA did little or nothing but some lame words in their updates. The AOA sat back and allowed this to happen because it didn't affect their own remuneration. Could they of done something (anything?) that would affect change? Who knows? Because they did absolutely no identifying action anywhere.
Those who signed up for and thus condoned C-Scale have no right to demand more than what they asked for.
As per the predicted recruitment drive in the US, C-Scale could raise and show it's true ramifications. If not now then eventually it will. But please don't ask for sympathy or more than what they asked or agreed to. I find it extremely arrogant to so severely undermine the industry and then seek those conditions that they forwent that were the backbone or premise of the entire job they begged for, all at the expense of others who stood against it.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 7th Dec 2012 at 15:07.
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Funny China, I can remember when "A" scalers used the same argument about "B" scale. Indeed a fool and his money, unfortunately the accountants may not be the fools we perceive them to be, just us, the idiots distracted by bright shiny offerings. Whilst we eat our young it will never change.
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Those who accepted the terms & conditions for the iCadet / C-Scale package deserve no sympathy. They went in knowing full well of what they were agreeing to, and if they didn't then the old saying "A fool and his money are easily parted" rings a bell.
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I agree with your point that nothing can change whenever we continue to eat our young, as you put it tuck. But to answer the same question asked of me many many times (go back & read previous posts): I was offered a position on B-Scale. That was the contract that but for a scarce few pilots on CX that by far the overwhelming majority were on. B-Scale did not represent a severe lowering of recruitment standards to kids with zero hours, zero credentials & zero experience. B-Scale did not enslave me to a bonded contract. B-Scale permitted me to earn an income that responsibly offered long term financial security as remuneration for the professional standards CX once sought in their recruited pilots.
Geh: I get your point, of course. But to deliberately & knowingly undercut the market value so dramatically & hence get the job only by doing so & then trying to demand those terms & conditions that were deliberately forgone later shows zero integrity. Would these zero hour wonders stand a chance against pilots with many thousands of hours experience, with further credentials & multi engine (jet, turbine or light twin) Cmd time as we're those who interviewed with me? No. They were successful because all but one of us turned it down as I'm lead to believe. They chose to undercut the market & now want what they turned down which is the only real reason they were ever able to interview?
But like you I too see the issues. Guys I know at CX are staunch (almost red left wingers) union guys who by the way joined during the recruitment ban.
I find it wrong to undermine the market to get the job to then seek those exact same terms & conditions that were turned down once in.
Geh: I get your point, of course. But to deliberately & knowingly undercut the market value so dramatically & hence get the job only by doing so & then trying to demand those terms & conditions that were deliberately forgone later shows zero integrity. Would these zero hour wonders stand a chance against pilots with many thousands of hours experience, with further credentials & multi engine (jet, turbine or light twin) Cmd time as we're those who interviewed with me? No. They were successful because all but one of us turned it down as I'm lead to believe. They chose to undercut the market & now want what they turned down which is the only real reason they were ever able to interview?
But like you I too see the issues. Guys I know at CX are staunch (almost red left wingers) union guys who by the way joined during the recruitment ban.
I find it wrong to undermine the market to get the job to then seek those exact same terms & conditions that were turned down once in.
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Of course it is frustrating and I realise that in the big picture it all looks very simplistic. However you can't really criticise a young lad who perhaps has always wanted to fly an airliner and has always looked up to airlines like Cathay thinking 'one day, that will be me up there'.
A great opportunity (You can't deny that it isn't) for them comes along and yes the pay isn't as good as the senior pilots but that realistically isn't going to stop the ones who truly want to be pilots. Remember these people are fresh and enthusiatic. They don't see it all with the jaded view that we have. They don't know the complexities of contracts and who is on what exactly or the feeling amongst the rest of us towards the C scale. They see it as a dream come true and one of the few airlines in the world who will pay for their training and give them a lump sum of money at date of join. Honestly, can you blame them for joining?
If anything, blame the system. Blame us for not doing more to stop it happening but you can't blame the starry eyed pimply faced youngsters for taking the opportunity given to them.
A great opportunity (You can't deny that it isn't) for them comes along and yes the pay isn't as good as the senior pilots but that realistically isn't going to stop the ones who truly want to be pilots. Remember these people are fresh and enthusiatic. They don't see it all with the jaded view that we have. They don't know the complexities of contracts and who is on what exactly or the feeling amongst the rest of us towards the C scale. They see it as a dream come true and one of the few airlines in the world who will pay for their training and give them a lump sum of money at date of join. Honestly, can you blame them for joining?
If anything, blame the system. Blame us for not doing more to stop it happening but you can't blame the starry eyed pimply faced youngsters for taking the opportunity given to them.
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But "B" scale was a severe lowering of the conditions. It was just that at the time we accepted what was on offer. We had heard, read and seen what the life of a Cathay pilot was like, and although the remuneration was less we got swept up in the dream. We were more than qualified and had we gone somewhere else we no doubt would have been in a better position now.
Now, "C" scale candidates have been swept along also, they can rationalize that the terms and conditions whilst far from perfect give them their shot at the Cathay dream, however like most "B" scalers the reality will set in after they have committed themselves to Hong Kong and extricating themselves becomes far too difficult. They will have sold their spouses on the dream and pride/stubbornness/embarrassment will blinker their ability to make a rational decision to run.
The spin Doctors and Accountants have solved yet another dilemma for the Company, whilst we all stand aghast at the arrogance, somewhere we acknowledge their ability to sell the un sellable. And hopefully from afar, if you are lucky will marvel at their next abhorrent pilot marketing tool.
Now, "C" scale candidates have been swept along also, they can rationalize that the terms and conditions whilst far from perfect give them their shot at the Cathay dream, however like most "B" scalers the reality will set in after they have committed themselves to Hong Kong and extricating themselves becomes far too difficult. They will have sold their spouses on the dream and pride/stubbornness/embarrassment will blinker their ability to make a rational decision to run.
The spin Doctors and Accountants have solved yet another dilemma for the Company, whilst we all stand aghast at the arrogance, somewhere we acknowledge their ability to sell the un sellable. And hopefully from afar, if you are lucky will marvel at their next abhorrent pilot marketing tool.
