Freighter PX'ing..either way you're shafted!
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Freighter PX'ing..either way you're shafted!
So now where you used to PX on a freighter, you now get to "operate" it instead...lets see how long it takes before the first crew run out of hours!
pssssst "just in case you are now regretting not signing, if you have been a good boy / girl, you can still go ask them to accept your consent form"
pssssst "just in case you are now regretting not signing, if you have been a good boy / girl, you can still go ask them to accept your consent form"
Last edited by asianeagle; 8th Jun 2012 at 11:52.
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What the hell does that mean?
Last edited by asianeagle; 8th Jun 2012 at 14:03.
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Nothing but good news in the CP's missive for me. I'm happy to "operate" in the bunk and subsequently have more days off at home. I did not write the CoS, but I did sign it. The company has no one but themselves to blame for this mess, as per usual. These types of situations will become more frequent as the company continues its assault on staff. When will they learn that good will from staff has tangible benefits to the bottom line?
Asian Eagle,
Your post left me utterly confused...
Asian Eagle,
Your post left me utterly confused...
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asian eagle may have been alluding to the fact that with one crew of four you have one lot of descretion on those patterns with very little spare time.
in the past with two sets of crew e.g.. two captains and two FOs (Hkg-Dac-Han-Hkg) they were on the same aircraft but operating on different duty times, and both had discretion independent of each other.
Thats what scheduling hoped.
in the past with two sets of crew e.g.. two captains and two FOs (Hkg-Dac-Han-Hkg) they were on the same aircraft but operating on different duty times, and both had discretion independent of each other.
Thats what scheduling hoped.
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T&B,
Fine by me. The company can have whatever they want as long as they are willing to pay for it. 2 CNs and 2 FOs for DAC / HAN is fine as long as they are all accruing full credit for the entire thing. Truth is, that is a very productive day from a pilot perspective. 8-9 of those and you are done for the month. 21 days off with no overnights, where do I sign up? Guys will be requesting these patterns now...
Fine by me. The company can have whatever they want as long as they are willing to pay for it. 2 CNs and 2 FOs for DAC / HAN is fine as long as they are all accruing full credit for the entire thing. Truth is, that is a very productive day from a pilot perspective. 8-9 of those and you are done for the month. 21 days off with no overnights, where do I sign up? Guys will be requesting these patterns now...
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No PD. What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? Clearly a cheapshot there, but I've come to expect that from CX. They just love to instill good will between company and staff.
Let's think this through... PD is a double win for the company as they save money on the ticket cost and recover the credit otherwise accrued on the PT flight. So they are mad about freighter px, why cutoff your nose to spite your face? This just keeps getting better... Oh, when will they learn???
I think I'll be avoiding the third floor right of the elevators for a while. Must be lots of angry little trolls in windowless offices back there trying to come up with new ways to "punish" renegade pilots.
Let's think this through... PD is a double win for the company as they save money on the ticket cost and recover the credit otherwise accrued on the PT flight. So they are mad about freighter px, why cutoff your nose to spite your face? This just keeps getting better... Oh, when will they learn???
I think I'll be avoiding the third floor right of the elevators for a while. Must be lots of angry little trolls in windowless offices back there trying to come up with new ways to "punish" renegade pilots.
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GT on the money
Those patterns are 1 CN 2 FO 1 SO
3 sector day
No PD
i couldn't give a **** traveling on some half arsed carrier
When they run late it will all go to ****
i will check my 29kg crew baggage and i am not paying for any excess
And not organizing my own transport.
Those patterns are 1 CN 2 FO 1 SO
3 sector day
No PD
i couldn't give a **** traveling on some half arsed carrier
When they run late it will all go to ****
i will check my 29kg crew baggage and i am not paying for any excess
And not organizing my own transport.
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Safety is our number one priority so we're going to make a captain sit in the seat for 3 T/O's and 3 Ldgs on a max FDP of 14.30 (12.30 + max 2 hour extension due IFR on DAC HAN pattern - can't count ground time as cargo loading taking place)
If they do try this I don't think it will last very long. More likely double crew and do the same as before only we all get full credit hours.
If they do try this I don't think it will last very long. More likely double crew and do the same as before only we all get full credit hours.
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Just curious, if you have a Canadian or someone who signed the waiver (same thing) they'll be subject to the most limiting FTLs And they would have gained jack shiet out of it. The irony of it all!
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You guys need to read up on your AFTLs!
The HKG>DAC>HAN pattern will need to change, and will most likely be split up in DAC or HAN, only CX knows where. My bet is DAC, since it would be such a lovely place to overnight.
You can not reasonably roster that pattern with four pilots. The pattern starts at 9:00 sign on, so your max FDP is 12.5hrs. You can extend it with inflight rest, but remember that rest can only be calculated by subtracting 1hr from the sector. The DAC>HAN and HAN>HKG are very short sectors, so it would be very hard to achieve sufficient rest for all four crew.
This would be okay if you wanted to burn out a couple of the guys, but you can't do that. 15.5(E) says that if you finish your relief duty, all time after that can be classed as positioning (ie, what some guys call "burn you out"). But again, this is the freighter, so you can't position on the freighter, so you can't use this provision. Every member of the 4 man crew would need to be achieving the required rest, for which there is not enough time to make the pattern work, since the FDP could only be extended by half of the total inflight rest of the crew member who gets the least amount of it.
Clear as mud?
One other option, would be to operate the pattern with 4 freighter PX biatches (ie, someone who has signed the offer). Then, they can continue to crew it in the same manner. That is why GMA's offer contained a contingency for "if they get enough biatches". This is that contingency. Cathay loves "as is" solutions.
The HKG>DAC>HAN pattern will need to change, and will most likely be split up in DAC or HAN, only CX knows where. My bet is DAC, since it would be such a lovely place to overnight.
You can not reasonably roster that pattern with four pilots. The pattern starts at 9:00 sign on, so your max FDP is 12.5hrs. You can extend it with inflight rest, but remember that rest can only be calculated by subtracting 1hr from the sector. The DAC>HAN and HAN>HKG are very short sectors, so it would be very hard to achieve sufficient rest for all four crew.
This would be okay if you wanted to burn out a couple of the guys, but you can't do that. 15.5(E) says that if you finish your relief duty, all time after that can be classed as positioning (ie, what some guys call "burn you out"). But again, this is the freighter, so you can't position on the freighter, so you can't use this provision. Every member of the 4 man crew would need to be achieving the required rest, for which there is not enough time to make the pattern work, since the FDP could only be extended by half of the total inflight rest of the crew member who gets the least amount of it.
Clear as mud?
One other option, would be to operate the pattern with 4 freighter PX biatches (ie, someone who has signed the offer). Then, they can continue to crew it in the same manner. That is why GMA's offer contained a contingency for "if they get enough biatches". This is that contingency. Cathay loves "as is" solutions.
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Liam, clearly ! 16.4 and .5 are for ULR ops, at least until the new FTL's are sanctioned.
7700, acclimatised 1215 FDP plus 2.01 ext due inflight rest (based on flight times 2 days ago, remember rest not necessarily continuous). Scheduled flight is currently rostered as 12.45 duty.
Oztralians ok, Canadians operate under not acclimatised so very tight lah ! (rest up to 18 or over 30 then ok)
7700, acclimatised 1215 FDP plus 2.01 ext due inflight rest (based on flight times 2 days ago, remember rest not necessarily continuous). Scheduled flight is currently rostered as 12.45 duty.
Oztralians ok, Canadians operate under not acclimatised so very tight lah ! (rest up to 18 or over 30 then ok)
Last edited by fire wall; 9th Jun 2012 at 08:17.