UK CAA IR 7 year fiasco
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The website seems to be a little glitchy today. Find the direct link on one of the other posts or type in UK CAA in the search window in the website itself.
FM.
FM.
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We are at 201 signatures and counting, however, can all of you ask other affected pilots who don't read Pprune to sign up as well. We only have until Sept 17th to lodge a legal complaint as LASORS will be obsolete and CAP804 will come into force at which point I presume the CAA can wash their hands of this and pass it onto EASA.
FM
FM
Last edited by Fart Master; 12th Jun 2012 at 19:05.
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Update
Just a wee update;
As things stand we are still in talks with a law company and the government. I have a couple of small requests of everybody who is involved/affected by this ruling;
1. We have received a reply from the government. The Minister of Transport is now aware of our case. The first letter we received contained 2 interesting points. Firstly she admitted that the guidance that the CAA provided was in error. An admission of guilt? Secondly she stated that the rules had been in place for 12 years, we can only assume that she was referring to the creation of JAR? We're not exactly sure what she means. Anyway, we have written back to the MP requesting more information whilst also fleshing out our case. This includes informing them that there is a petition online. I think this will make them realise that we are serious in regards to this matter. So my request to you is to get as many to sign up as possible. Our thanks in advance.
2. As we are now approaching the point where we may be looking at taking legal action, the two of us leading the case would appreciate any other legal angles in addition to what has already been provided, that you feel may be appropriate to help us apply pressure to the CAA/Govt.
One thing is for sure if we give up now then we're guarenteed not to have a favourable outcome. If you are willing, keep writing letters/e-mails or phone to show your displeasure at what is going on.
Chris
As things stand we are still in talks with a law company and the government. I have a couple of small requests of everybody who is involved/affected by this ruling;
1. We have received a reply from the government. The Minister of Transport is now aware of our case. The first letter we received contained 2 interesting points. Firstly she admitted that the guidance that the CAA provided was in error. An admission of guilt? Secondly she stated that the rules had been in place for 12 years, we can only assume that she was referring to the creation of JAR? We're not exactly sure what she means. Anyway, we have written back to the MP requesting more information whilst also fleshing out our case. This includes informing them that there is a petition online. I think this will make them realise that we are serious in regards to this matter. So my request to you is to get as many to sign up as possible. Our thanks in advance.
2. As we are now approaching the point where we may be looking at taking legal action, the two of us leading the case would appreciate any other legal angles in addition to what has already been provided, that you feel may be appropriate to help us apply pressure to the CAA/Govt.
One thing is for sure if we give up now then we're guarenteed not to have a favourable outcome. If you are willing, keep writing letters/e-mails or phone to show your displeasure at what is going on.
Chris
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Thought
Hello Chris
a thought which is probably not original, however, the day before this change of policy took place we all had a valid IR based on the rules at the time.
If the CAA want to use another interpretation i.e. the 7 year ruling, then should it not apply from the day of change?
Anything else is retrospective.
Regards
a thought which is probably not original, however, the day before this change of policy took place we all had a valid IR based on the rules at the time.
If the CAA want to use another interpretation i.e. the 7 year ruling, then should it not apply from the day of change?
Anything else is retrospective.
Regards
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I have just spoken to someone who works for the government and asked what the affected pilots should do. His answer was to write to your MP, even if you don't live in the UK. If you have property include your address in your letter of protest.
Also mention that the Transport Ministry has in some way admitted some degree of error, in that they admit the CAA's 'guidance was in error'
Time is short, even if it's just a couple of paragraphs it will help. The change.org page can also be copied and pasted.
FM.
Also mention that the Transport Ministry has in some way admitted some degree of error, in that they admit the CAA's 'guidance was in error'
Time is short, even if it's just a couple of paragraphs it will help. The change.org page can also be copied and pasted.
FM.
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Macau ATPL
How about converting ones Hong Kong ATPL to a "Macau" ATPL...seeing as Macau is linked to Portugal...then a Portuguese EASA ATPL ???
Not sure about this... Thoughts anyone?
Not sure about this... Thoughts anyone?
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IR EXAMS
I just went to the CAA today during a 24 hr layover in LHR with a view to re-newing my UK JAR ATPL which expires mid August.
I was told that....'There might be a problem'...... She said I haven't utilized my JAR IR in over 8years, and the 320 rating I had has lapsed, but I replied "So what".....I have a few thousand hrs PIC 330 /340 and now B777 on the ICAO ATPL I flew into heathrow with this morning..... The lady said .....I know, it's confusing... She was almost whispering!!!!!. Guys I thought 320 and 330 were a common TYPE.....????? You can fly both at once... So I thought, that by having 330 on my ICAO licence, I could at least re-new my JAR Licence even though 320 had lapsed. The licence renewal form states that if you fly a common 'Type' or Class on your ICAO licence, then a valid type rating is not required on the JAR licence.
I reckon the CAA staff are confused with this ridiculous rule......just as much as I am.
BUT........bottom line is guys..... i want job security in case I lose my job in the UAE tomorrow, I am no longer employable...
What are these 7 exams we have to do, and where can they be found..???? Shouldn't be that difficult.
I know it's the principle behind this ludicrous rule change that has sickened us all, BUT..... We still need info on What we need to do exactly to revalidate our JAR licences.... What are the exams, where can I get exam papers to study..
I asked them at the CAA what I should do...!!! the reccomendation was to let my JAR ATPL expire, and then request an EASA ATPL after the 17th September...
Bearing in mind I will have no type rating on the EASA licence or an IR....so the exams will still have to be done. Load a sh'*e.........
I was told that....'There might be a problem'...... She said I haven't utilized my JAR IR in over 8years, and the 320 rating I had has lapsed, but I replied "So what".....I have a few thousand hrs PIC 330 /340 and now B777 on the ICAO ATPL I flew into heathrow with this morning..... The lady said .....I know, it's confusing... She was almost whispering!!!!!. Guys I thought 320 and 330 were a common TYPE.....????? You can fly both at once... So I thought, that by having 330 on my ICAO licence, I could at least re-new my JAR Licence even though 320 had lapsed. The licence renewal form states that if you fly a common 'Type' or Class on your ICAO licence, then a valid type rating is not required on the JAR licence.
I reckon the CAA staff are confused with this ridiculous rule......just as much as I am.
BUT........bottom line is guys..... i want job security in case I lose my job in the UAE tomorrow, I am no longer employable...
What are these 7 exams we have to do, and where can they be found..???? Shouldn't be that difficult.
I know it's the principle behind this ludicrous rule change that has sickened us all, BUT..... We still need info on What we need to do exactly to revalidate our JAR licences.... What are the exams, where can I get exam papers to study..
I asked them at the CAA what I should do...!!! the reccomendation was to let my JAR ATPL expire, and then request an EASA ATPL after the 17th September...
Bearing in mind I will have no type rating on the EASA licence or an IR....so the exams will still have to be done. Load a sh'*e.........
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Bear with us for a little bit. BALPA are now firmly on our side and are going to have another go at the authority. The petition is on the BALPA website and we are getting a lot of support from British pilots.
I'm sending some more letters this week after I've done my 6 monthly spam can session. I will be raising the issue of 'Impact assessment' which is a government document that clearly wasn't followed.
In the mean time, please, please write to your UK MP's or the secretary of state for transport Justine Greening or Theressa Villiers who has Aviation as part of her ministerial remit. Phone and write to the CAA expressing your displeasure.
Keep poking and prodding......you never know....
I'm sending some more letters this week after I've done my 6 monthly spam can session. I will be raising the issue of 'Impact assessment' which is a government document that clearly wasn't followed.
In the mean time, please, please write to your UK MP's or the secretary of state for transport Justine Greening or Theressa Villiers who has Aviation as part of her ministerial remit. Phone and write to the CAA expressing your displeasure.
Keep poking and prodding......you never know....
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its easa's fault
guys, my concern with this is that uk caa will just say they are
following easa rules and you have to deal with them . i would rather bombard
easa hq with questions and petitions but it's a secret organisation they
set the rules but you cant contact them. writing to european parliment members with talk of loss of employment and reference to european court of human rites may be another course
following easa rules and you have to deal with them . i would rather bombard
easa hq with questions and petitions but it's a secret organisation they
set the rules but you cant contact them. writing to european parliment members with talk of loss of employment and reference to european court of human rites may be another course
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Update
Hi,
Just a quick update for those of you not in the petition, we are expecting a decision on the matter in the next few weeks. A proposal has been sent to EASA and is in the process of being presented to the European Commission.
I'll get back to you as soon as we have some news,
C.
Just a quick update for those of you not in the petition, we are expecting a decision on the matter in the next few weeks. A proposal has been sent to EASA and is in the process of being presented to the European Commission.
I'll get back to you as soon as we have some news,
C.
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Al last!
Thank you very much Fart Master, I received an exemption for having to repass my exams from Cliff Whittaker today. I'm certain they would not have backed down were it not for the pressure you exerted.CAA Ref 201305291R
Last edited by PeeProone; 30th May 2013 at 12:05.
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Sounds like there may be some positive news coming out of this thread and the petition ... As one affected by this where can I find an update or further details?
Thanks to all who have put the effort into getting the CAA to see sense in this matter.
Thanks to all who have put the effort into getting the CAA to see sense in this matter.
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I just signed the petition "UK Civil Aviation Authority: Temp approval for affected pilots to renew their IR without resitting exams" on Change.org.
It's important. Will you sign it too? Here's the link:
http://www.change.org/petitions/uk-c...share_petition
It's important. Will you sign it too? Here's the link:
http://www.change.org/petitions/uk-c...share_petition
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Just to clarify, It's not just me whose exempt from retaking the exams, everyone who has maintained an IR on a different ICAO Licence is now also exempt.
I've tried to copy/attach the letter and post for all but no joy.
I've tried to copy/attach the letter and post for all but no joy.
Last edited by PeeProone; 30th May 2013 at 12:04.