Basings study update?
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Basings study update?
There seems to be a lot of on line chatter about certain basing areas being reduced or closed.
Does anyone know when this study was completed and when it will be actioned?
Can they even close bases legally where they are on shored?
Does anyone know when this study was completed and when it will be actioned?
Can they even close bases legally where they are on shored?
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Baywatcher. You are a first class pratt. There is NO possibility of bases being closed. Perhaps some, but certainly not all. You are simply trying to wind people up. CX would see a mass exodus of pilots if they even hinted at such a thing. Put up or shut up pal.
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Baywatcher. There is NO chance of it happening. As I said, put up or shut up. Remember the old adage: better to keep quiet and let them think you are an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt. What part of 'CX would see a mass exodus of pilots' can't you understand? The airline is already chronically short of pilots (the ONLY reason they may park a/c). If they threatened bases, there would be probably over a 500 pilots leaving the airline in short order.
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Furthermore Baywatcher.....if (and it's a BIG if) CX closed bases, officers would have the option of returning on the PRESENT housing scheme. You really are a pathetic little wind-up artist aren't you? Again....put up or shut up.
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Hey dbored, me thinks you might be the only one here making a fool of yourself. You said it yourself, they would have a mass exodus if they announced closing bases. Why not just keep quiet and let them wither away, or perhaps announce their closing at the next downturn. Pilot surplus sorted.
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Eddie. What 'pilot surplus' are you referring to? Everyone who is operating knows that we are severely short of pilots.....!!! What 'Alice in Wonderland' fantasy world do you live in pal? I've just done my 7th month in a row with overtime. Also, perhaps you noticed the fleets are begging for people to volunteer as trainers? Seriously, have you and Baywatcher been in the pub together since early morning?
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I have a young family here in the US. My wife is near her parents, and she has a good job. If CX wants to play games with peoples family life and stability they will reap what they sow. I can categorically confirm that I will not return to HK under any circumstances. I am sure there is at least another several hundred who wouldn't as well. It's the company that's 'smoking' something if they think such a dramatic move wouldn't result in absolute chaos.
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dbored,
You got mental probs mate. Go get an x-ray or something. You may not like the guys you fly with - they may not like you - but you are on the same team maaty.. You need a mental check-up = go get it
You got mental probs mate. Go get an x-ray or something. You may not like the guys you fly with - they may not like you - but you are on the same team maaty.. You need a mental check-up = go get it
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CX management WILL f@ck you around as much as they can - especially with the latest yearly results - no living up to the high expectations (even though it was a bloody nice profit!).. Just learn to understand that management are not there to cater for you (dbored inclusive) - they are there to make a bonus.. thats it! 
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It is well known that Mr Slossar wanted to close all the bases before onshoring began, primarily because of the difficulty for the company in satisfying what are often conflicting rules between different jurisdictions. When you look at what is happening in Canada and Europe he was right.
Housing costs were not an issue.The only reason it did not happen is because Flight Ops said he could lose a third of his crew.
With the exception of the US, the current policy is to allow the bases to decline. As FOs take their commands in HK they will not be replaced and it goes without saying that there will be no new commands on the bases. This is already happening as is evident to everyone.
My understanding is that the basings review will re-assess the establishment on each base. It is entirely likely that where a base is overcrewed, then crews will be offered a transfer to HK. Seniority will decide who goes. Manchester and Vancouver are in the crosshairs.
The US is unlikely to be affected since a judge has already decided that US based pilots work for a HK company, whereas in the UK, Canada and Australia onshoring transfers the employment and therefore the tax liability to the onshored jurisdiction. The laws in those jurisdictions are clashing with HK laws and since CX is a HK enterprise the company cannot avoid HK law. Neither can it avoid onshored law. The company is in a vice and should never have onshored, but hindsight is terrific asset.
Housing costs were not an issue.The only reason it did not happen is because Flight Ops said he could lose a third of his crew.
With the exception of the US, the current policy is to allow the bases to decline. As FOs take their commands in HK they will not be replaced and it goes without saying that there will be no new commands on the bases. This is already happening as is evident to everyone.
My understanding is that the basings review will re-assess the establishment on each base. It is entirely likely that where a base is overcrewed, then crews will be offered a transfer to HK. Seniority will decide who goes. Manchester and Vancouver are in the crosshairs.
The US is unlikely to be affected since a judge has already decided that US based pilots work for a HK company, whereas in the UK, Canada and Australia onshoring transfers the employment and therefore the tax liability to the onshored jurisdiction. The laws in those jurisdictions are clashing with HK laws and since CX is a HK enterprise the company cannot avoid HK law. Neither can it avoid onshored law. The company is in a vice and should never have onshored, but hindsight is terrific asset.
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Dbored was reacting to the comments of Baywatcher, and he was right. Baywatcher was stating without qualifying that bases would be closed, and furthermore that pilots would have to return on a base of 24K. Neither statement has ANY basis in fact. Under our contract, we can return to HK with our current housing deal based on seniority. CX can not just arbitrarily remove that, it has to be negotiated. As for the bases being closed, Hawkeye just mentioned that Slosar was told by Flt Ops (fact) that he risked losing up to a third of the pilots if he implemented that plan. That is exactly what Dbored said. Baywatcher is the one who needs a mental check up, as he was simply throwing a hand grenade and enjoying winding people up in the process.
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Tornado,
I echo your previous statements and can't see a return to HKG in my family's future.
That being said USAB is usually exempt from these rumors given that they have not on shored it.
Many people have already given up HKG pax commands to take up SYD and YVR freighter positions and they seem like likely targets...yet another FOP mess. I think any thing is possible, who would have foreseen that we now only hire SO's with no expat benefits at that.
I echo your previous statements and can't see a return to HKG in my family's future.
That being said USAB is usually exempt from these rumors given that they have not on shored it.
Many people have already given up HKG pax commands to take up SYD and YVR freighter positions and they seem like likely targets...yet another FOP mess. I think any thing is possible, who would have foreseen that we now only hire SO's with no expat benefits at that.
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The company won't close the bases:
1. A based pilot is cheaper than a HKG pilot (no housing, no education, cheaper medical, no reserve coverage in hotels)
2. To move all based crews back to HKG would cost too much
3. Too many pilots would leave
4. Recruitment is already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. No bases will only make it harder
1. A based pilot is cheaper than a HKG pilot (no housing, no education, cheaper medical, no reserve coverage in hotels)
2. To move all based crews back to HKG would cost too much
3. Too many pilots would leave
4. Recruitment is already scrapping the bottom of the barrel. No bases will only make it harder
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The last two and particularly #4 - recruitment - is the biggest reason bases will stay around. The glimmer of hope that you'll end up at home instead of HKG is responsible for the majority of expat pilots in the last 10 to 15 years. It may be a great adventure when you're single but not very many guys are enthralled with raising a family in Hong Kong.
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what about the little chestnut of, if they close the bases in Australia and say there is no need for the position and you need to return to hong Kong. They cannot force you to move and the position is now redundant, they need to pay redundancy packages to all those that say shove it! I wonder if that is factored into the profit and loss statement?
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I believe that basings as we know it are finished. They will never force those on the base back to HKG but I think you will find that very few or no new base slots will open. "Wither on the vine" sound familiar?
There will also not be a BIG announcement of the the new plan because as a previous poster said there will be a large number of pilots, waiting for a base, calling it a day then. It's the old "dangle the big juicy carrot" trick. People will stay in the hope of getting that base when the company know that they have no intention of offering it.
This can then also address issue #4 above - it leaves the DEFO hired directly onto the base option open should it be needed at some future point.
I think the "issue" with basings essentially comes down to one thing - control/power. CX are losing control of the situation as they are being forced to abide by 1st world style labour laws. I am pretty sure that they will willingly forego some significant staff savings in order to regain the power that they are losing.
CX and Swire don't play very well with others when they are not getting their way!
There will also not be a BIG announcement of the the new plan because as a previous poster said there will be a large number of pilots, waiting for a base, calling it a day then. It's the old "dangle the big juicy carrot" trick. People will stay in the hope of getting that base when the company know that they have no intention of offering it.
This can then also address issue #4 above - it leaves the DEFO hired directly onto the base option open should it be needed at some future point.
I think the "issue" with basings essentially comes down to one thing - control/power. CX are losing control of the situation as they are being forced to abide by 1st world style labour laws. I am pretty sure that they will willingly forego some significant staff savings in order to regain the power that they are losing.
CX and Swire don't play very well with others when they are not getting their way!
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Well said, tiger321. There will be no big announcement because too many guys might leave and less people will be interested in coming here with a view on future prospects.
If the guys at the top really wanted bases to happen, they'd be far more proactive in getting things going. Like you say they don't like sharing their toys, even if it saves a few pennies.
If the guys at the top really wanted bases to happen, they'd be far more proactive in getting things going. Like you say they don't like sharing their toys, even if it saves a few pennies.