Circling Approach. ??
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Circling Approach. ??
Recently on Fragrant Harbour someone mentioned that Cathay is considering banning circling approaches. Surely this has to be a deliberate distortion of the truth as it's the same as saying Cathay pilots are not up to circling approaches.
In days gone by it was mandatory to demonstrate the ability to circle and if you could not do it then the left seat was not for you. Circling is actually no more than a hands on numbers game so why even consider banning it ?
O.P.
In days gone by it was mandatory to demonstrate the ability to circle and if you could not do it then the left seat was not for you. Circling is actually no more than a hands on numbers game so why even consider banning it ?
O.P.
Yes I'm sure all CX crews could safely conduct a circling approach.
You should be asking why in 2012 with ILS, VOR DME and RNAV approaches available at just about every Runway CX operate into should we even consider a circling approach??? FUK is about the only one, and even then in marginal weather you'd be nuts to circle considering 34 has an ILS.
Maybe it is time to consign the circling approach to the bin. Much safer easier options available.
You should be asking why in 2012 with ILS, VOR DME and RNAV approaches available at just about every Runway CX operate into should we even consider a circling approach??? FUK is about the only one, and even then in marginal weather you'd be nuts to circle considering 34 has an ILS.
Maybe it is time to consign the circling approach to the bin. Much safer easier options available.
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I`d say this falls pretty heavily in the unsubstaintiated rumor department. Circling approaches aren`t dangerous it is just that they are usually not practiced to maintain real proficiency (due to lack of reasons to do them). These were designed in the days when small airplanes went to alot of small airports which were approach limited due to navaids or surveys; with FMS and GPS/GNSS this becomes less and less necessary. There is always an increased level of risk in any non precison approach but this is usually minimal when managed properly. When one has to do one it usually goes OK so long as appropriate thought and preparation is done beforehand. IMHO the Canarsie is a form of circling approach which will be around until the end of time.
With RNAV RNP approaches circling approaches will likely go the way of the ADF and the four course range in due time.
With RNAV RNP approaches circling approaches will likely go the way of the ADF and the four course range in due time.
Last edited by Shep69; 13th Mar 2012 at 00:27.
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Yeah, well the truth is that most FDAP events at CX result from visual approaches. And that is in visual conditions, so makes sense that they would prevent the same behavior in more challenging IFR circling weather.
A 400 passenger jet has no business yanking and banking at minimums to stay within protected area. Just like it has no business flying 75year old NDB approaches, which is why Boeing has removed the ADF. They are worthless anyway with all their inherent errors.
A 400 passenger jet has no business yanking and banking at minimums to stay within protected area. Just like it has no business flying 75year old NDB approaches, which is why Boeing has removed the ADF. They are worthless anyway with all their inherent errors.
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Circling Approaches are a bit like Go Arounds. How often do you do one for real? Actually I have done far more Circling Approaches than Go Arounds (I guess I am just lucky with the weather). Yet like the latter, we are required to be proficient, and able to perform such manoeuvre instinctively. Perhaps each RT we should conduct a Circling Approach to maintain these skills? However, having said that, if they do go, I am not going to miss them at all. 
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They are history
"FOP completed a review of Circling Approaches on our network, assessed the threat posed by those approaches and considered how effectively crew managed the approaches and decided that Circling Approaches will no longer be an approved manoeuvre. Ops Part a will be amended shortly......."
from crews news.
"FOP completed a review of Circling Approaches on our network, assessed the threat posed by those approaches and considered how effectively crew managed the approaches and decided that Circling Approaches will no longer be an approved manoeuvre. Ops Part a will be amended shortly......."
from crews news.
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So it is true!! What a sad state of affairs to see the skills of genuine pilots further erroded. I suppose it has something to do with the lowest common denominator.
" Learning that does not daily increase will daily decrease " ( Chinese proverb )
O.P.
" Learning that does not daily increase will daily decrease " ( Chinese proverb )
O.P.
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Recall it was a botched circling approach at Avalon after which CASA waved its red card at Tiger. Maybe this new policy is a knee-jerk reaction to that. Circling approaches are hardly used but at least it's going to be in writing now.
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Perhaps some North American drivers could confirm, but aren't circling approaches prohibited in some US airlines or at least prohibited by a/c type within the airline?
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Banned in Gulfair after the A320 prang even though the guy was not even doing a " circling App". I like the previous post about transport, heavy jets not having any business banking & weaving all over the place looking for a runway. Ok for a Cessna 150.In my 747................no thanks. Blimey, my last straight in ILS was a bit like that...time to hang up the boots !
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The visuals in simulators do not adequately depict the runway environment throughout the whole procedure. At our Airline circling can only be performed VMC. Charted minima for circling approaches are not to be used...
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The visuals in simulators do not adequately depict the runway environment throughout the whole procedure. At our Airline circling can only be performed VMC. Charted minima for circling approaches are not to be used...
The only thing we have lost is the absolutely useless demonstration in the simulator every other RT/PC cycle. You know the one, where you start a clock abeam and turn base at 30 seconds. You know, the visual procedure that you perform with reference to ... instruments.
As mentioned previously, useless. We can still circle since VFR minimums are pretty much the same as our circling minimums. We just have to call it a visual approach. Semantics really.
Here we go again an old fart thinking back........
I Remember the day we used to circle into places like Launceston at night at 400' Agl ( maybe a little higher but damn low ) in our little 733.......now that was fun ( not )
The year is 2012 and whilst we all like to think we fly like Chuck Yeager circling in a big Jet is just plain stupid now days with better safer options available.
I Remember the day we used to circle into places like Launceston at night at 400' Agl ( maybe a little higher but damn low ) in our little 733.......now that was fun ( not )
The year is 2012 and whilst we all like to think we fly like Chuck Yeager circling in a big Jet is just plain stupid now days with better safer options available.