RT TIPS and STRATEGIES
Join Date: Feb 2012
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So.....Nitpocket
You say:
You don't need to address them each and every call, only first contact or when there has been a time lag between calls or on HF.
What is the time lag champ??
Tell us.
You don't need to address them each and every call, only first contact or when there has been a time lag between calls or on HF.
What is the time lag champ??
Tell us.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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I'm not saying its right and usually I'm the first to get annoyed by their "liberal" use of 121.5, but if you understood Putonghua at all you would know that most, if not all, of the banter that goes on is actually operational. Half the time they are on a wrong freq so another aircraft has to relay the correct freq (very sloppy yes but not talking about pork exactly). Sometimes its a bit like the Chinese 123.45 version of North Americans asking about rides and whether directs are available that day or why not.
Ok.
ICAO DOC 4444
4.11.3 Radiotelephony procedures for air-ground voice communication channel changeover
When so prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority, the initial call to an ATC unit after a change of air-ground voice communication channel shall contain the following elements:
a) designation of the station being called;
b) call sign and, for aircraft in the heavy wake turbulence category, the word “Heavy”;
c) level, including passing and cleared levels if not maintaining the cleared level;
d) speed, if assigned by ATC; and
e) additional elements, as required by the appropriate ATS authority.
Next, with regards to saying "fully" Ready:- please take note of item e*
Chapter 12. Phraseologies 12-21
22/11/07
Circumstances Phraseologies
Note.— The pilot will, when requested, report “RUNWAY VACATED” when the entire aircraft is beyond the relevant runway-holding position.
*e) RUNWAY VACATED.
* Denotes pilot transmission.
12.3.4.10 PREPARATION FOR TAKE-OFF a) UNABLE TO ISSUE (designator) DEPARTURE (reasons);
b) REPORT WHEN READY [FOR DEPARTURE];
c) ARE YOU READY [FOR DEPARTURE]?;
d) ARE YOU READY FOR IMMEDIATE DEPARTURE?;
*e) READY;
... if unable to issue take-off clearance f) WAIT [reason];
... clearance to enter runway and await take-off clearance g) LINE UP [AND WAIT];
†h) LINE UP RUNWAY (number);
i) LINE UP. BE READY FOR IMMEDIATE DEPARTURE;
... conditional clearances ‡j) (condition) LINE UP (brief reiteration of the condition);
... acknowledgement of a conditional clearance *k) (condition) LINING UP (brief reiteration of the condition);
... confirmation or otherwise of the readback of conditional clearance
l) [THAT IS] CORRECT (or NEGATIVE) [I SAY AGAIN] ... (as appropriate).
* Denotes pilot transmission. † When there is the possibility of confusion during multiple runway operations. ‡ Provisions concerning the use of conditional clearances are contained in 12.2.7.
12.3.4.11 TAKE-OFF CLEARANCE a) RUNWAY (number) CLEARED FOR TAKE-OFF [REPORT AIRBORNE];
... when reduced runway separation is used b) (traffic information) RUNWAY (number) CLEARED FOR TAKE-OFF;
ICAO DOC 4444
4.11.3 Radiotelephony procedures for air-ground voice communication channel changeover
When so prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority, the initial call to an ATC unit after a change of air-ground voice communication channel shall contain the following elements:
a) designation of the station being called;
b) call sign and, for aircraft in the heavy wake turbulence category, the word “Heavy”;
c) level, including passing and cleared levels if not maintaining the cleared level;
d) speed, if assigned by ATC; and
e) additional elements, as required by the appropriate ATS authority.
Next, with regards to saying "fully" Ready:- please take note of item e*
Chapter 12. Phraseologies 12-21
22/11/07
Circumstances Phraseologies
Note.— The pilot will, when requested, report “RUNWAY VACATED” when the entire aircraft is beyond the relevant runway-holding position.
*e) RUNWAY VACATED.
* Denotes pilot transmission.
12.3.4.10 PREPARATION FOR TAKE-OFF a) UNABLE TO ISSUE (designator) DEPARTURE (reasons);
b) REPORT WHEN READY [FOR DEPARTURE];
c) ARE YOU READY [FOR DEPARTURE]?;
d) ARE YOU READY FOR IMMEDIATE DEPARTURE?;
*e) READY;
... if unable to issue take-off clearance f) WAIT [reason];
... clearance to enter runway and await take-off clearance g) LINE UP [AND WAIT];
†h) LINE UP RUNWAY (number);
i) LINE UP. BE READY FOR IMMEDIATE DEPARTURE;
... conditional clearances ‡j) (condition) LINE UP (brief reiteration of the condition);
... acknowledgement of a conditional clearance *k) (condition) LINING UP (brief reiteration of the condition);
... confirmation or otherwise of the readback of conditional clearance
l) [THAT IS] CORRECT (or NEGATIVE) [I SAY AGAIN] ... (as appropriate).
* Denotes pilot transmission. † When there is the possibility of confusion during multiple runway operations. ‡ Provisions concerning the use of conditional clearances are contained in 12.2.7.
12.3.4.11 TAKE-OFF CLEARANCE a) RUNWAY (number) CLEARED FOR TAKE-OFF [REPORT AIRBORNE];
... when reduced runway separation is used b) (traffic information) RUNWAY (number) CLEARED FOR TAKE-OFF;
Last edited by nitpicker330; 1st Mar 2012 at 22:20.
Ok crwass. Is that clear enough for you?
No, well they don't specify a time lag whereupon you would address the ATS unit again BUT common sense and plain brains would say after a considerable time lag especially if the freq is quiet. Ok for you, maybe 10 to 15 mins??
Happy champ?
Just don't address them each and every call, ok?
No, well they don't specify a time lag whereupon you would address the ATS unit again BUT common sense and plain brains would say after a considerable time lag especially if the freq is quiet. Ok for you, maybe 10 to 15 mins??
Happy champ?
Just don't address them each and every call, ok?
When an old pilot man I had the sometimes dubious privilege to work for, in the days we plied the Bass Strait and it's islands daily, this fella (his initials were DH in all truth) . . .. DH would hog the frequency for minutes at a time, rabbiting on to some other plane about separation or intentions or you name it .. . after one prolonged monologue from DH, the moment he unkeyed his mic . a dag designated NP softly intoned for all to hear - "Change hands Dallas - change hands."
Man I've had a great day off thanks for asking!!
When I get seriously challenged over a point I know to be correct I make sure I quote the facts. In this case straight from ICAO. You asked me to "tell us" so I would have hated to let you down
When I get seriously challenged over a point I know to be correct I make sure I quote the facts. In this case straight from ICAO. You asked me to "tell us" so I would have hated to let you down
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DH gave me one of the all time graetest lectures over the radio but he had the wrong pilot . Passed his message on to my boss as promised.
Or did you get in the way of one of his shiny Herons through the Gap? From ATC point of view, I'm with nitpicker. Can't stand the "fully ready" and "fully established" BS. Unfortunately part of the blame for the fully ready crap can be laid on the stupid 5 minutes to start call required here. To which the normal response is "report fully ready". The 5 minute call is to prompt a call down to the radar centre to check for any departure time restriction.
Now we have people coming up to the holding point reporting "fully ready". As said above, you're ready or you're not, end of story. Same for "established".
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bekolblockage
"Fully established" is called when you have previously only called localiser established and you were asked to do so.
There are far more important things to be worried about, no doubt nitpicker will demand flap or flaps whichever he prefers!
"Fully established" is called when you have previously only called localiser established and you were asked to do so.
There are far more important things to be worried about, no doubt nitpicker will demand flap or flaps whichever he prefers!
