new recruiting grounds for CX
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Will create a new reality when the CN or RQ needs a break and mister "I brought 80 hrs of flying experience with me" gets to mind the store.
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I like the way recruiting don't want them to
Use pprune! That way they can Controll the lies they are telling the new joiners.
I bet the are telling them command in 5 years, bases to Mumbai or Delhi. $10,000 housing will get you a mansion...curry on all meals!
Use pprune! That way they can Controll the lies they are telling the new joiners.
I bet the are telling them command in 5 years, bases to Mumbai or Delhi. $10,000 housing will get you a mansion...curry on all meals!
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sad but true
Actually Froggy, your whole post is probably not lies. If they opened a Mumbai or Dehli base, these guys probably would get a command in 5 years. CX would avoid paying BPP as the the slots would be offered but I doubt many non Indian natives would take them. I don't know about $10k, but the 24k for CN's would get you a pretty good place over there. And there's always a curry on board!
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They would have to fight me for the curry!
24 k for command will take many years to achieve in seniority. If you think Oz tax is complicated you ain't seen nothing yet. The red tape in India is beyond stupid!
24 k for command will take many years to achieve in seniority. If you think Oz tax is complicated you ain't seen nothing yet. The red tape in India is beyond stupid!
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"24 k for command will take many years to achieve in seniority"
That's my point. If they opened Indian bases, they wouldn't be in seniority. How many guys do you know that would go to India for a command? Not many now, but if they start actively recruiting in India, I suspect there'll be plenty at the bottom of the list that would happily go home, and get a command 10 years ahead of time.
That's my point. If they opened Indian bases, they wouldn't be in seniority. How many guys do you know that would go to India for a command? Not many now, but if they start actively recruiting in India, I suspect there'll be plenty at the bottom of the list that would happily go home, and get a command 10 years ahead of time.
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If i was Cathay Pacific.. I would be very careful hiring these guys and gals... In my company we have caught a few Indian pilots with false type ratings... PAID the Indian DCGA offical to stamp his license with a type rating.. but never even set foot in a sim..
there are a lot of these guys and gals out there...
Indian arrests reveal corruption in granting of pilot licenses - Washington Post... 18th April 2011...
An Indian pilot made news here in January when she landed an Airbus 320 passenger plane on its nose wheel. Investigators soon discovered several alarming things: Parminder Kaur Gulati had not only made that dangerous mistake before, she also had earned her senior pilot’s license through fake grades.
Worse still, she had plenty of company.
A government-ordered investigation has exposed a nationwide network of flight schools, aviation officials and others routinely forging grade sheets, fudging logbooks and accepting bribes. The revelation that some unqualified aspirants have made it into the cockpit is just one of a string of scandals that have roiled India in the past six months, but it is among the most serious, potentially endangering the lives of thousands.
“It is worrying that people could get away with it for so long,” said E.K. Bharat Bhushan, India’s director general of civil aviation, showing files of fraudulent grade sheets. “These look so real. It really shakes you.”
Bhushan said he would not describe India’s skies as unsafe, noting, “These are only a handful of our 8,000 certified pilots.” Still, 29 pilots — including Gulati — have lost their licenses and 14 people have been arrested in the wake of the January incident, as officials comb through files from the past five years, scrutinizing the grades of more than 1,700 pilots and auditing 40 flight schools.
India’s airline industry expanded rapidly during that period. From 2009 to 2010 alone, passenger traffic grew by 19 percent. There were more than 51 million domestic passengers last year, and many of them used the numerous low-fare airlines that have sprung up.
The boom also triggered a rush among India’s youths for lucrative jobs as pilots.
“So many flying schools opened in the boom time,” Bhushan said. “There was a lot of competition, but hardly any oversight.”
To graduate from an Indian aviation school, students must log 200 hours of flying time, then pass four written tests. That qualifies them for a commercial pilot’s license, which allows them to work as a co-pilot. To take command of an aircraft, they have to fly 1,500 hours and take additional written tests, which officials say 30 percent of candidates pass.
“The questions in the tests are theoretical, irrelevant and chosen by bureaucrats who have never touched the controls of the aircraft,” said a senior pilot who works for government-owned Air India and spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid jeopardizing his job. “This is why so many resort to faking their test results. It’s a well-oiled machinery. Flying hours cannot be fudged without the active connivance of aerodrome officials, aviation fuel suppliers, flying instructors and government officials. The rot affects the entire system — from top to the bottom.”
Pilots suspended in the past month worked for Air India and the private airlines SpiceJet and IndiGo, Gulati’s employer.
“We have busted two organized gangs from six cities that ran this racket of fudging test marks and booked them for cheating and forgery,” said Ashok Chand, deputy commissioner of police in New Delhi’s crime department. “The pilots’ licenses have been canceled, but the court has granted them bail.”
Chand said the average bribe paid by aspiring pilots for a forged grade sheet was about $15,000. In India, cheating carries a maximum sentence of seven years in prison.
The civil aviation minister, Vayalar Ravi, told the Parliament that a committee has been formed to develop tougher standards for verifying pilots’ test grades and licenses. He also said that online testing may soon be an option, as part of the effort to limit the opportunities for tampering. The committee’s report is expected by the end of the month.
Priya Subramanian, from the southern city of Chennai, wanted to be a pilot and spent the past year checking out flying schools nationwide.
“I visited six flying academies. It was so frightening because some of them are just operating out of one or two dilapidated, empty rooms. There is no runway, no aircraft most of the time,” she said. “I often wondered about how dangerous it can be to fly in India. When the scandal hit the headlines, I was not surprised at all.”
Subramanian, 33, said she has put her dream of flying on hold until the government addresses the corruption in the system.
In the past two years, the Civil Aviation Ministry also caught 57 pilots who reported drunk for work.
there are a lot of these guys and gals out there...
Indian arrests reveal corruption in granting of pilot licenses - Washington Post... 18th April 2011...
An Indian pilot made news here in January when she landed an Airbus 320 passenger plane on its nose wheel. Investigators soon discovered several alarming things: Parminder Kaur Gulati had not only made that dangerous mistake before, she also had earned her senior pilot’s license through fake grades.
Worse still, she had plenty of company.
A government-ordered investigation has exposed a nationwide network of flight schools, aviation officials and others routinely forging grade sheets, fudging logbooks and accepting bribes. The revelation that some unqualified aspirants have made it into the cockpit is just one of a string of scandals that have roiled India in the past six months, but it is among the most serious, potentially endangering the lives of thousands.
“It is worrying that people could get away with it for so long,” said E.K. Bharat Bhushan, India’s director general of civil aviation, showing files of fraudulent grade sheets. “These look so real. It really shakes you.”
Bhushan said he would not describe India’s skies as unsafe, noting, “These are only a handful of our 8,000 certified pilots.” Still, 29 pilots — including Gulati — have lost their licenses and 14 people have been arrested in the wake of the January incident, as officials comb through files from the past five years, scrutinizing the grades of more than 1,700 pilots and auditing 40 flight schools.
India’s airline industry expanded rapidly during that period. From 2009 to 2010 alone, passenger traffic grew by 19 percent. There were more than 51 million domestic passengers last year, and many of them used the numerous low-fare airlines that have sprung up.
The boom also triggered a rush among India’s youths for lucrative jobs as pilots.
“So many flying schools opened in the boom time,” Bhushan said. “There was a lot of competition, but hardly any oversight.”
To graduate from an Indian aviation school, students must log 200 hours of flying time, then pass four written tests. That qualifies them for a commercial pilot’s license, which allows them to work as a co-pilot. To take command of an aircraft, they have to fly 1,500 hours and take additional written tests, which officials say 30 percent of candidates pass.
“The questions in the tests are theoretical, irrelevant and chosen by bureaucrats who have never touched the controls of the aircraft,” said a senior pilot who works for government-owned Air India and spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid jeopardizing his job. “This is why so many resort to faking their test results. It’s a well-oiled machinery. Flying hours cannot be fudged without the active connivance of aerodrome officials, aviation fuel suppliers, flying instructors and government officials. The rot affects the entire system — from top to the bottom.”
Pilots suspended in the past month worked for Air India and the private airlines SpiceJet and IndiGo, Gulati’s employer.
“We have busted two organized gangs from six cities that ran this racket of fudging test marks and booked them for cheating and forgery,” said Ashok Chand, deputy commissioner of police in New Delhi’s crime department. “The pilots’ licenses have been canceled, but the court has granted them bail.”
Chand said the average bribe paid by aspiring pilots for a forged grade sheet was about $15,000. In India, cheating carries a maximum sentence of seven years in prison.
The civil aviation minister, Vayalar Ravi, told the Parliament that a committee has been formed to develop tougher standards for verifying pilots’ test grades and licenses. He also said that online testing may soon be an option, as part of the effort to limit the opportunities for tampering. The committee’s report is expected by the end of the month.
Priya Subramanian, from the southern city of Chennai, wanted to be a pilot and spent the past year checking out flying schools nationwide.
“I visited six flying academies. It was so frightening because some of them are just operating out of one or two dilapidated, empty rooms. There is no runway, no aircraft most of the time,” she said. “I often wondered about how dangerous it can be to fly in India. When the scandal hit the headlines, I was not surprised at all.”
Subramanian, 33, said she has put her dream of flying on hold until the government addresses the corruption in the system.
In the past two years, the Civil Aviation Ministry also caught 57 pilots who reported drunk for work.
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Isn't it sad...
that the company is willing to go to places like India and Pakistan to fill cockpits? Especially when there are qualified guys 'n' gals out there right now willing to do the job for the right package on a base or in Hong Kong.
To put it another way, CX is willing to jeopardize our safety record so they do not have to pay a reasonable wage. They will lean ever more on us (current CNs and FOs) to compensate for the lack of experience (and perhaps English) in the cockpit.
When I joined CX, I thought I was joining a first-world airline in a second / third world country. I was wrong, CX is rapidly falling behind the world-class airlines of the world in their ardent attempts to cut costs. It won't be long before CX is considered no better than any other Asian airline with regards to safety.
The good news is that when this place devolves into nothing better than a contract job, it will be very easy to leave for contracts elsewhere.
To put it another way, CX is willing to jeopardize our safety record so they do not have to pay a reasonable wage. They will lean ever more on us (current CNs and FOs) to compensate for the lack of experience (and perhaps English) in the cockpit.
When I joined CX, I thought I was joining a first-world airline in a second / third world country. I was wrong, CX is rapidly falling behind the world-class airlines of the world in their ardent attempts to cut costs. It won't be long before CX is considered no better than any other Asian airline with regards to safety.
The good news is that when this place devolves into nothing better than a contract job, it will be very easy to leave for contracts elsewhere.
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Interviews are like standardized tests. Just because one doesn't do well on them doesn't mean that person is unintelligent or wrong for the job. Many of the managers doing the interviews are in those positions because they were not well liked or very good at flying the line in the first place. In that regard, you could take your rejections as a backhanded compliment. Like Jeremy Lin, don't stop believing in yourself just because you have been kicked back a couple times.
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Thank you for the words of encouragement,
Im am extremely determined at having my Aviation career out of HK and will do what it takes to achieve it.
I've been very fortunately to live in different countries recently but I still find it difficult to accept the fact that I may have to have a career outside HK.
Im am extremely determined at having my Aviation career out of HK and will do what it takes to achieve it.
I've been very fortunately to live in different countries recently but I still find it difficult to accept the fact that I may have to have a career outside HK.
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Trying, need to get some extra flight training out of the way. Was told I would only be considered if I meet the pre-qualified cadets requirements as I already hold a CPL.
Knowing my luck, I'll probably just miss out on the recruitment period
But I've got a licence and the glass is half full.
Knowing my luck, I'll probably just miss out on the recruitment period
But I've got a licence and the glass is half full.
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Article
From High flying aspirations - Express TravelWorld
High flying aspirations
For the very first time Cathay Pacific has sent a recruitment team to India for hiring second officers. The airline that is recruiting 300 pilots annually promises long-term career development path to high potential candidates. By Sudipta Dev
To keep pace with its growth plans Cathay Pacific has a target of recruiting 300 pilots annually for the next two years. A high level recruitment team was in Mumbai recently to do the first phase of screening of 77 second officers from India. It is for the very first time that the airline is doing recruitment for flight crew in India.Till recently Cathay Pacific has been majorly hiring from the traditional markets, mostly Commonwealth countries like the UK, Australia and Canada, besides of course Hong Kong nationals. In fact 43 nationalities have been working as flight crew with the airline. “In India we see a great number of very well qualified candidates. Essentiallly we chose to come at this time as as we had many applications from Indian nationals. They have been writing to us constantly though we have never advertised for the positions. We have looked at the best applications and have called them,” says Captain Paul Gunnel, deputy chief pilot (Airbus), Cathay Pacific.
The airline has three streams for the recruitment of second officers – those with with no previous experience (this is only Hong Kong ID card holders); advanced entry (having commercial pilot license and 250 hours flying time); and transition training entry ( air transport pilot license and 1500 flying hours). From India this time recruitment is being done for the advanced entry stream. The recruitment team have been interviewing six people every day and those who pass the initial screening will be contacted for the second stage of selection. The first phase involves three aspects – technical paper, reasoning test and an interview. All the positions are Hong Kong based. “We will take as many proven suitable. It is important to stress that it is not a competition, those selected must meet our standards,” says Gunnel, pointing out that following the recruitment team's return to Hong Kong they will take a call on whom to call for the second stage. “We offer a package that is competitive for the candidates we seek and we offer a full career in aviation,” he adds.
Training and development
All pilots hired by Cathay Pacific go to Australia following their selection and depending on their experience there are three different training packages. The training programme in Australia is funded by the company. “After training they will get their Hong Kong pilot license and second officer training in Hong Kong. The second phase of the training is for two months,” mentions Gunnel.
The airline is committed to career development of all its personnel and therefore wants to hire only those second officers who possess command potential. The career path from a second officer to first officer and finally a Cathay Pacific captain is what the company envisages for them at the time of recruitment. For second officers who show excellence at work it takes about three to five years to become first officers and then another five to six years to reach the position of commander and captain.
While technical skill is a key criteria for selection the recruitment experts look at other important aspects as well. “We are looking at them to be commanders so we want candidates who are motivated to be with us. They should be disciplined professionals who have a passion for aviation. They should be willing to work hard to get where they want to be,” says Gunnel.
For an airline that has a flight crew from 43 different countries one of the most significant factors is the cosmopolitan mindset of candidates. “A cockpit is a claustrophobic environment and to work in close contact with people from so many different nationalities and cultures it is essential for them to have a cosmopolitan outlook to be able to work in that environment,” states Gunnel.
For an industry that constantly goes through ups and downs, Gunnel points out that Cathay has been good at weathering the storms and promises to meet long term career aspirations of its personnel.
High flying aspirations
For the very first time Cathay Pacific has sent a recruitment team to India for hiring second officers. The airline that is recruiting 300 pilots annually promises long-term career development path to high potential candidates. By Sudipta Dev
To keep pace with its growth plans Cathay Pacific has a target of recruiting 300 pilots annually for the next two years. A high level recruitment team was in Mumbai recently to do the first phase of screening of 77 second officers from India. It is for the very first time that the airline is doing recruitment for flight crew in India.Till recently Cathay Pacific has been majorly hiring from the traditional markets, mostly Commonwealth countries like the UK, Australia and Canada, besides of course Hong Kong nationals. In fact 43 nationalities have been working as flight crew with the airline. “In India we see a great number of very well qualified candidates. Essentiallly we chose to come at this time as as we had many applications from Indian nationals. They have been writing to us constantly though we have never advertised for the positions. We have looked at the best applications and have called them,” says Captain Paul Gunnel, deputy chief pilot (Airbus), Cathay Pacific.
The airline has three streams for the recruitment of second officers – those with with no previous experience (this is only Hong Kong ID card holders); advanced entry (having commercial pilot license and 250 hours flying time); and transition training entry ( air transport pilot license and 1500 flying hours). From India this time recruitment is being done for the advanced entry stream. The recruitment team have been interviewing six people every day and those who pass the initial screening will be contacted for the second stage of selection. The first phase involves three aspects – technical paper, reasoning test and an interview. All the positions are Hong Kong based. “We will take as many proven suitable. It is important to stress that it is not a competition, those selected must meet our standards,” says Gunnel, pointing out that following the recruitment team's return to Hong Kong they will take a call on whom to call for the second stage. “We offer a package that is competitive for the candidates we seek and we offer a full career in aviation,” he adds.
Training and development
All pilots hired by Cathay Pacific go to Australia following their selection and depending on their experience there are three different training packages. The training programme in Australia is funded by the company. “After training they will get their Hong Kong pilot license and second officer training in Hong Kong. The second phase of the training is for two months,” mentions Gunnel.
The airline is committed to career development of all its personnel and therefore wants to hire only those second officers who possess command potential. The career path from a second officer to first officer and finally a Cathay Pacific captain is what the company envisages for them at the time of recruitment. For second officers who show excellence at work it takes about three to five years to become first officers and then another five to six years to reach the position of commander and captain.
While technical skill is a key criteria for selection the recruitment experts look at other important aspects as well. “We are looking at them to be commanders so we want candidates who are motivated to be with us. They should be disciplined professionals who have a passion for aviation. They should be willing to work hard to get where they want to be,” says Gunnel.
For an airline that has a flight crew from 43 different countries one of the most significant factors is the cosmopolitan mindset of candidates. “A cockpit is a claustrophobic environment and to work in close contact with people from so many different nationalities and cultures it is essential for them to have a cosmopolitan outlook to be able to work in that environment,” states Gunnel.
For an industry that constantly goes through ups and downs, Gunnel points out that Cathay has been good at weathering the storms and promises to meet long term career aspirations of its personnel.
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I can't believe the HK press have not picked up on this. The airline which once attracted the most experienced from all over the world is now recruiting in a country with a fake-pilot epidemic that goes as deep as you want to take it.
But what do you expect when you pay peanuts. I guess they have given up, since they can't attract any pilots, they will recruit non-pilots? :roll eyes:
This is gonna be fun.
But what do you expect when you pay peanuts. I guess they have given up, since they can't attract any pilots, they will recruit non-pilots? :roll eyes:
This is gonna be fun.
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Schweizer2
Surely you meant to say
"Darn, I should have BOUGHT an Indian ID card"? I'm pretty sure that someone in The Department Of Citizenship Type Things would found extenuating circumstances and seen their way to a little bit of monetary induced greasing of wheels...
Well, goodness gracious me.
Surely you meant to say
"Darn, I should have BOUGHT an Indian ID card"? I'm pretty sure that someone in The Department Of Citizenship Type Things would found extenuating circumstances and seen their way to a little bit of monetary induced greasing of wheels...
Well, goodness gracious me.