Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Fragrant Harbour
Reload this Page >

Interesting numbers from the 747-8F

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Interesting numbers from the 747-8F

Old 12th Jan 2012, 19:57
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,881
Interesting numbers from the 747-8F

Had a look yesteday and observed some interesting numbers on the 747-8F vs the 747-400ERF. Same route, similar flight time: the -8F carries approximately 25% more revenue (125T vs 100T, not including increased aircraft BOW) than the ERF for almost identical fuel burn (within 1%). I believe the volume is 16% greater for what that is worth. This is on the "heavy", initial production -8 freighters without the two forthcoming engine improvements (PIPs) from GE which are rumored to improve fuel burn by 2%. So I'm guessing the company is pretty happy with the new piece of kit.

Just guessing, but I don't think this bodes well for the A380's future at CX. Same type, good performance, and better cargo capability all point towards the -8I. Perhaps passenger experience will tip the scales towards the A380, but I do not think many have experienced the -8I yet. It will be interesting to hear how the passengers react the Lufthansa's -8I later this year...
cxorcist is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 00:06
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: HKG
Posts: 142
Thumbs down

Fuel #'s may be great, but from a pilots standpoint, we have complaints. VNAV is a mess. It cannot hold the PATH with out speed brakes on every single descent. (Think if we get the -8i for PAX... Hand mic placement was an afterthought. No place to put flight plan, jepps, docs, etc.

Hand flying is no pleasure, it hunts and fishes in pitch.

Until this thing gets tweeked, I'll take the -400 any day.
ASH1111 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 01:30
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 183
Ash, the economists don't care about any of the points you raise, valid as they may be.
744drv is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 02:20
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HK
Posts: 56
Smile

Just remember you are comparing Boeing's last generation 747 with Airbus's first generation A380 I'm sure the figures will only get better for the A380.
pasa001 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 02:52
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,881
Pasa,

We already had that conversation months ago and concluded that the A380 will have a 2-3% seat cost advantage over the 747-8I when operated with full pax based on Lufthansa's seating configurations. However, the A380 has almost no cargo carrying capability once two decks worth of passengers baggage cans are loaded. I'm not sure that will fly at CX, but we will find out soon...
cxorcist is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 03:11
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HK
Posts: 56
You assume that the A380 will continue in its current form.
pasa001 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 06:04
  #7 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,881
Whatever form it evolves into will still have two decks of passengers for 1 deck of belly space = very little cargo volume, unless it morphs into a combi with freight aft of main deck pax. Very interesting thought there, but not a success on the -400 from what I heard.
cxorcist is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 06:13
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: negative RAIM.....
Posts: 329
No matter what the type if CX insist on those Godforesaken bucket seats & the Business class seats that cram you into a 45 deg offset & sardine can bed preventing you from any hope of interaction with your traveling partner then customer reviews will continually slate any aircraft make or model.
TopTup is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 09:42
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: HK
Posts: 27
Don't think they will opt for either the -8I or the A380. They like the 777-300ER too much and the bean counters will swoon over the A350. This company wants frequency not capacity. If they were going to opt for either, it would have been done by now to secure their slot in the delivery schedule.

At the end of the day, do we really give a toss what aircraft they buy? That's their problem. The only thing that should concern us is their continual degradation of the contract and benefits.
Walk-Around Bitch is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 10:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
Posts: 995
Get over it boys, it is not really about seats either. The 777 makes way more money on the same routes, and carries even more freight.

Mark my words, if there is any increase in orders they will be for the 777 or its successor, the 777-8 and 777-9. A bit boring, I know, but that is just how cathay likes it. Good ol' missionary position every time. This ain't Virgin or Emirates.
Sqwak7700 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 14:17
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 762
Well Said!

The only thing that should concern us is their continual degradation of the contract and benefits.
Here here!
broadband circuit is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 18:51
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,104
Shouldn't that be:

"Hear! Hear!"
Neptunus Rex is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 20:15
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 762
You missed my deliberate, "faux self centred irony" Neptunus
broadband circuit is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2012, 21:20
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,104
Ah yes, bc, I can see it now. I am a long way from the Harbour, in both time and distance. Cheers!
Neptunus Rex is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2012, 00:28
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Polar Route
Posts: 1,881
777-8/9 is at least 5-10 years off. It really depends on the A350 and if/when it challenges the 777's supremacy. Surely, Boeing will not introduce a better 777 while trying to market the -8I. They aren't that stupid. Milk the cow you have first, then get a new one.

As for the 777 only assumption, I think that is unlikely. For the sake of argument, let's assume the 777 has 300 seats and the -8I has 400 seats. The difference between operating 777 only and a combination is the difference between 3,6,9,12 hundred seat offering and 3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 hundred seat offering to the market. That is a huge increase in flexibility from an aircraft the company already has (type-wise) on the property with pilots and engineering all trained up and operating.
cxorcist is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2012, 04:19
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: On a few nerves apparently
Posts: 63
Who really gives a sh!t man??!! Do yourself a favor and get laid more often or something!
VforVENDETTA is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2012, 08:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SouthEast Asia
Posts: 50
V, relax man... I was actually enjoying the thread and cxorcist analysis.
airbusbatics is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.