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To the delusional among us,
1. It is silly to say "god hating" since there is no god (all the other things that exist have evidence, not fairy tales and pretend "evidence" that doesn't count). It's the people that invent their gods that are impossible to reason with, not the rational secularists.
2. The "UK" (established later) only became a Christian nation many, many centuries after many military invasions, battles, atrocities, etc., forced it upon the people (just like all geographically organized religions) conveniently preventing them from actually reading the silly fairy tale book or seeing any evidence (since there is none). Meanwhile, the Christian cult kept changing their books and stories and divided into various other sub-cults, and the battle lasted a long time among these good, Jesus-inspired Christians (mostly Catholics against Protestants who were protesting the insanity of Catholic crap) all over Europe, for centuries of pain, suffering, destruction, rape, murder, torture, etc. (please spare us the fairy tale that this was all fair game because someone ate an apple/fig/whatever). Meanwhile, one king wanted a divorce one day and poof, yet another sub-cult was invented (The Church of England), yet again with the king conveniently in charge of his own cult (do you really need a list of this trend, from Egypt to Greece to Norway to India to Salt Lake City to Rome to Avignon to Jerusalem to Mecca...).
3. Provision of further expansions of the same fairy tales does not make any of it true. Take a look at the thousands of other "holy books" and series of "holy books" out there, many much thicker than the Bible....volume of content does not equal an increase in truth or value.
4. Yes, the virus of faith is everywhere. The faith varies by region (mostly, until the advent of scientifically-invented better communications systems like the Internet, increasing their spread cross-border, cross-culture, and cross-self-protective religion-installed barriers) but the viral effect is the same: Weak, gullible, ignorant (i.e. lacking education/knowledge) people who really want to believe in god (and there are evolutionary reasons for this) always have and presently still do invent gods to satisfy their needs, and entangle supernatural imaginary friends with actual real morals, advice, traditions like marriage, ceremonies, big buildings, fancy art, big hats on chief child molesters, etc. But none of this has anything to do with reason, logic and evidence. The virus of faith works just like a computer virus once it is installed on the brain. It simply runs itself and keeps going, until an anti-virus/cleaner/deprogrammer is used. When referring to brains, this means using education and knowledge.
5. As for the "legal code that underpins Western society" is from the Bible, don't forget to include all the stuff from Deuteronomy about legitimizing slavery, having your daughters raped, killing wives, murdering neighbours for minor upsets, homophobia, executing entire cities/groups of children, genocide, etc. Hey, it's God's code, not Western Society's! The phony 10 commandments were obviously just taken from earlier religions/gods/kings/traditions. Most readers should go ahead and read them again to see how false the above statement is about underpinning. I'll bet anything nobody can quote them all by memory (just try, to yourself), or even half of these wonderful commandments that mean so much to us, using whichever of the thousands of varying translations and interpretations one was taught.
6. Christianity may be the fastest growing religion in China (not fact checked) but Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe, the USA and the world. So by the Christian reasoning above, Islam must be more true and better, right?
7. As for prevailing against the "Lord," what and who are you talking about? Where is this "Lord" and who is fighting "him?" It's just a whole bunch of people fighting each other on the planet, no Lords or gods or anything, though each is ultimately fighting, killing and ruining lives in the name of their own imaginary gods. Even though religions have generally formed most modern borders or regional borders, religion/faith is still trumped by an equally irrational and overwhelming power in people's lives; nationalism, yet another pure accident of the location of birth, as with religion.
8. Nothing written in the Bible about Jesus is anything more than contradictory hearsay, jotted down by strangers decades after his supposed life. There is a reason hearsay is inadmissible in court. There is a reason modern juries are not allowed to consider hearsay, voices in their heads, imaginary friends or faith to decide if something is true. There is a reason courts and science present evidence. None of the four gospel writers (well, the 4 still included in the Bible) ever met Jesus, ever talked to him, or ever saw him do anything. Any reference to the Bible is of zero value in supporting any argument anyone makes. It has no more value as evidence than a story about Santa Claus going down the chimney proves Santa brought the presents. Just as you dismiss the Koran when other people say they want to kill their daughter in the name of god because the Koran says it's ok. I'll spare you the 1000's of other examples from the Bible and Koran (and Sharia), etc.
9. First, Jesus was Jewish at the time of the Roman Empire, and the time he was alive. Apparently he was a pretty good carpenter, too. Good gig for god's kid to learn the value of work and money and all that, but seriously, this great god was a carpenter until the last couple of years of his life? Really? Anyways...Did the Jews overcome the Roman Empire, as was mentioned above? How's that working out? Jesus sure had a funny way of "overcoming the Roman Empire" as you said. They kind of killed him in the fairy tale. Funny how there is no mention of this great guy for the first 30 years of his life, or for decades after, and this minor cults took centuries to become much of anything. It wasn't until, go figure, some weak minded, easily fooled emperor, Constantine, 300 years (!!!) after Jesus supposedly lived, used the promise of legitimizing the cult to get his guys to kill, rape, murder, maim, torture and plunder another bunch of guys did he actually go ahead and do so, therefore imposing Christianity on the empire. Then that empire split, as did the power, and the cult divided further into eastern and western Christianity. Which one is right? And which one of each division's sub-cults is more right? The horrendous Dark Ages that led into the insane, religion-fueled cruelty of the Middle Ages in Europe is something Jesus can sure be proud of. And then there is today, filled with people like you. Even worse, are you seriously actually anything less that totally ashamed of and offended by the way European Christians spread the nonsense "good book" around the world to the Americas (particularly brutally in South America), Asia and bits of Africa? Really? Just 2 generations ago the good Christians were stealing kids from their parents in Canada, Australia, America, etc, to infect them with the virus of the Christian faith. Did you miss that history class? Thanks, Jesus! Good job! (I'll try to stop repeating the bit about the organized raping of children in "god's house" by the "men of god.")
11. Ever notice that it is not the year 2011 in the Jewish calendar? Or Chinese? Or Hindu? Or Muslim? Or Mayan? Shall I go on? They've all got their own god's birthday/god's death/god's son's birth/resurrection/battle success/battle lost/martyr to celebrate Day 1 with. They are all just established references that make day to day life more convenient. This makes people feel better about Jesus, having a calendar that started 4 or more years before he was supposedly born? (Learn about the gospels' mention of stuff that is also mentioned to have happened before he was born...oops! But, you know, it's kinda hard to write biographies decades after a guy is dead, specially without ever meeting the guy.)
12. Just because atoms are complex to some people does not mean god made them. With a little understanding of chemistry, atoms are not that complicated: It all starts from hydrogen, then 2 of those makes helium, then just keep on adding particles from collisions, etc. It's not even rocket science. But atoms are mostly space! And wouldn't you know it, the Bible never mentioned atoms...and now we're diving even further into subatomic particles, dark matter, etc. Awesome stuff! And people are figuring it all out, without reference to the Koran, or Torah, or any fairy tales...just using the scientific method. Amazing how that works for everything.
13. Nobody said complexity "just happened." I always say it evolved, as do most non-delusional people familiar with evolution, abiogenesis, science, etc. Contrary to your statement about god just appearing and making everything from nothing, and reading the minds of billions of people forever to check whether they are worshiping him or not, like magic, the truth is that evolution is a very simple, wonderful, all-encompassing explanation for the development of things as we see them today, where they came from, and where they are going, all based on observation, experimentation, reason, logic and evidence rather than a fairy tale in an old book.
14. Funny how Jesus or any of the world's other imaginary friends never seem to take a moment to just show up, get on CNN or even Fox News, pitch up for a university lecture, send us a DVD, hold a conference at the stadium to perform miracles (with video!) or really just ever do or say anything to anyone ever...except for all those secret personal messages pumped directly into the faithful's heart muscle!
Alas, I will now take the advice of many smart people and decline debate with these irrational people any further. In the words of Richard Dawkins, on debating creationists:
"Inevitably, when you turn down the invitation you will be accused of cowardice, or of inability to defend your own beliefs. But that is better than supplying the creationists with what they crave: the oxygen of respectability in the world of real science."
And finally, this gem, from sometime after Kirk Cameron's faith was reinforced by his amazement of must-have-been-created bananas:
Have a nice day!
1. It is silly to say "god hating" since there is no god (all the other things that exist have evidence, not fairy tales and pretend "evidence" that doesn't count). It's the people that invent their gods that are impossible to reason with, not the rational secularists.
2. The "UK" (established later) only became a Christian nation many, many centuries after many military invasions, battles, atrocities, etc., forced it upon the people (just like all geographically organized religions) conveniently preventing them from actually reading the silly fairy tale book or seeing any evidence (since there is none). Meanwhile, the Christian cult kept changing their books and stories and divided into various other sub-cults, and the battle lasted a long time among these good, Jesus-inspired Christians (mostly Catholics against Protestants who were protesting the insanity of Catholic crap) all over Europe, for centuries of pain, suffering, destruction, rape, murder, torture, etc. (please spare us the fairy tale that this was all fair game because someone ate an apple/fig/whatever). Meanwhile, one king wanted a divorce one day and poof, yet another sub-cult was invented (The Church of England), yet again with the king conveniently in charge of his own cult (do you really need a list of this trend, from Egypt to Greece to Norway to India to Salt Lake City to Rome to Avignon to Jerusalem to Mecca...).
3. Provision of further expansions of the same fairy tales does not make any of it true. Take a look at the thousands of other "holy books" and series of "holy books" out there, many much thicker than the Bible....volume of content does not equal an increase in truth or value.
4. Yes, the virus of faith is everywhere. The faith varies by region (mostly, until the advent of scientifically-invented better communications systems like the Internet, increasing their spread cross-border, cross-culture, and cross-self-protective religion-installed barriers) but the viral effect is the same: Weak, gullible, ignorant (i.e. lacking education/knowledge) people who really want to believe in god (and there are evolutionary reasons for this) always have and presently still do invent gods to satisfy their needs, and entangle supernatural imaginary friends with actual real morals, advice, traditions like marriage, ceremonies, big buildings, fancy art, big hats on chief child molesters, etc. But none of this has anything to do with reason, logic and evidence. The virus of faith works just like a computer virus once it is installed on the brain. It simply runs itself and keeps going, until an anti-virus/cleaner/deprogrammer is used. When referring to brains, this means using education and knowledge.
5. As for the "legal code that underpins Western society" is from the Bible, don't forget to include all the stuff from Deuteronomy about legitimizing slavery, having your daughters raped, killing wives, murdering neighbours for minor upsets, homophobia, executing entire cities/groups of children, genocide, etc. Hey, it's God's code, not Western Society's! The phony 10 commandments were obviously just taken from earlier religions/gods/kings/traditions. Most readers should go ahead and read them again to see how false the above statement is about underpinning. I'll bet anything nobody can quote them all by memory (just try, to yourself), or even half of these wonderful commandments that mean so much to us, using whichever of the thousands of varying translations and interpretations one was taught.
6. Christianity may be the fastest growing religion in China (not fact checked) but Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe, the USA and the world. So by the Christian reasoning above, Islam must be more true and better, right?
7. As for prevailing against the "Lord," what and who are you talking about? Where is this "Lord" and who is fighting "him?" It's just a whole bunch of people fighting each other on the planet, no Lords or gods or anything, though each is ultimately fighting, killing and ruining lives in the name of their own imaginary gods. Even though religions have generally formed most modern borders or regional borders, religion/faith is still trumped by an equally irrational and overwhelming power in people's lives; nationalism, yet another pure accident of the location of birth, as with religion.
8. Nothing written in the Bible about Jesus is anything more than contradictory hearsay, jotted down by strangers decades after his supposed life. There is a reason hearsay is inadmissible in court. There is a reason modern juries are not allowed to consider hearsay, voices in their heads, imaginary friends or faith to decide if something is true. There is a reason courts and science present evidence. None of the four gospel writers (well, the 4 still included in the Bible) ever met Jesus, ever talked to him, or ever saw him do anything. Any reference to the Bible is of zero value in supporting any argument anyone makes. It has no more value as evidence than a story about Santa Claus going down the chimney proves Santa brought the presents. Just as you dismiss the Koran when other people say they want to kill their daughter in the name of god because the Koran says it's ok. I'll spare you the 1000's of other examples from the Bible and Koran (and Sharia), etc.
9. First, Jesus was Jewish at the time of the Roman Empire, and the time he was alive. Apparently he was a pretty good carpenter, too. Good gig for god's kid to learn the value of work and money and all that, but seriously, this great god was a carpenter until the last couple of years of his life? Really? Anyways...Did the Jews overcome the Roman Empire, as was mentioned above? How's that working out? Jesus sure had a funny way of "overcoming the Roman Empire" as you said. They kind of killed him in the fairy tale. Funny how there is no mention of this great guy for the first 30 years of his life, or for decades after, and this minor cults took centuries to become much of anything. It wasn't until, go figure, some weak minded, easily fooled emperor, Constantine, 300 years (!!!) after Jesus supposedly lived, used the promise of legitimizing the cult to get his guys to kill, rape, murder, maim, torture and plunder another bunch of guys did he actually go ahead and do so, therefore imposing Christianity on the empire. Then that empire split, as did the power, and the cult divided further into eastern and western Christianity. Which one is right? And which one of each division's sub-cults is more right? The horrendous Dark Ages that led into the insane, religion-fueled cruelty of the Middle Ages in Europe is something Jesus can sure be proud of. And then there is today, filled with people like you. Even worse, are you seriously actually anything less that totally ashamed of and offended by the way European Christians spread the nonsense "good book" around the world to the Americas (particularly brutally in South America), Asia and bits of Africa? Really? Just 2 generations ago the good Christians were stealing kids from their parents in Canada, Australia, America, etc, to infect them with the virus of the Christian faith. Did you miss that history class? Thanks, Jesus! Good job! (I'll try to stop repeating the bit about the organized raping of children in "god's house" by the "men of god.")
11. Ever notice that it is not the year 2011 in the Jewish calendar? Or Chinese? Or Hindu? Or Muslim? Or Mayan? Shall I go on? They've all got their own god's birthday/god's death/god's son's birth/resurrection/battle success/battle lost/martyr to celebrate Day 1 with. They are all just established references that make day to day life more convenient. This makes people feel better about Jesus, having a calendar that started 4 or more years before he was supposedly born? (Learn about the gospels' mention of stuff that is also mentioned to have happened before he was born...oops! But, you know, it's kinda hard to write biographies decades after a guy is dead, specially without ever meeting the guy.)
12. Just because atoms are complex to some people does not mean god made them. With a little understanding of chemistry, atoms are not that complicated: It all starts from hydrogen, then 2 of those makes helium, then just keep on adding particles from collisions, etc. It's not even rocket science. But atoms are mostly space! And wouldn't you know it, the Bible never mentioned atoms...and now we're diving even further into subatomic particles, dark matter, etc. Awesome stuff! And people are figuring it all out, without reference to the Koran, or Torah, or any fairy tales...just using the scientific method. Amazing how that works for everything.
13. Nobody said complexity "just happened." I always say it evolved, as do most non-delusional people familiar with evolution, abiogenesis, science, etc. Contrary to your statement about god just appearing and making everything from nothing, and reading the minds of billions of people forever to check whether they are worshiping him or not, like magic, the truth is that evolution is a very simple, wonderful, all-encompassing explanation for the development of things as we see them today, where they came from, and where they are going, all based on observation, experimentation, reason, logic and evidence rather than a fairy tale in an old book.
14. Funny how Jesus or any of the world's other imaginary friends never seem to take a moment to just show up, get on CNN or even Fox News, pitch up for a university lecture, send us a DVD, hold a conference at the stadium to perform miracles (with video!) or really just ever do or say anything to anyone ever...except for all those secret personal messages pumped directly into the faithful's heart muscle!
Alas, I will now take the advice of many smart people and decline debate with these irrational people any further. In the words of Richard Dawkins, on debating creationists:
"Inevitably, when you turn down the invitation you will be accused of cowardice, or of inability to defend your own beliefs. But that is better than supplying the creationists with what they crave: the oxygen of respectability in the world of real science."
And finally, this gem, from sometime after Kirk Cameron's faith was reinforced by his amazement of must-have-been-created bananas:
Have a nice day!
Last edited by Iron Skillet; 5th Sep 2011 at 07:58.
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Iron Skillet: On a G day i'm guessing? My earlier comments are self-evident. Many will read them and consider the points I made. Many will be like yourself, obviously bitter and extremely worked up about challenging a God who you probably sense is actually there, but have rejected. Either way, I am at peace with myself and my place in His universe. You only offer desolation.
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Iron Skillet.....'man', you need a life.... 
You talk of 'science' as though it is something separate from God. He created 'science', just as he created the universe you live in. He gave man the wisdom and ability to observe and understand. He also gave us the ability to sense his presence and understand his intentions towards us. You are simply trying to observe the painting without recognising the painter.... Oh, and btw, atoms are very complicated. Try reading a book about their structure, the strong atomic force and the weak atomic force, never mind quantum physics and their strange and almost other-worldly characteristics. While you're at it, try pondering the many, many finely balanced facts about the physical universe and how they could not vary by even .000001% in many instances or life could not exist. As someone mentioned, to be an atheist requires more 'faith' than being a Christian, as it requires the suspension of your own god given soul. A life fighting against the very Creator that brought you into being is one that is most sadly spent.
You talk of 'science' as though it is something separate from God. He created 'science', just as he created the universe you live in. He gave man the wisdom and ability to observe and understand. He also gave us the ability to sense his presence and understand his intentions towards us. You are simply trying to observe the painting without recognising the painter.... Oh, and btw, atoms are very complicated. Try reading a book about their structure, the strong atomic force and the weak atomic force, never mind quantum physics and their strange and almost other-worldly characteristics. While you're at it, try pondering the many, many finely balanced facts about the physical universe and how they could not vary by even .000001% in many instances or life could not exist. As someone mentioned, to be an atheist requires more 'faith' than being a Christian, as it requires the suspension of your own god given soul. A life fighting against the very Creator that brought you into being is one that is most sadly spent.
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...and I'm on my second bucket of popcorn! This is interesting stuff.
As a died in the wool atheist, I think it's a great debate about pollution.
I don't force my views down other peoples throats, yet there are many religious types, the ones who believe in some mythical sky floater, who do wish to forcibly impose their polluted views on non believers like me.
As such, thus is an interesting read, and is good ammo to throw back at the god botherers next time they come my way.
Sure I have beliefs, but simple realistic ones like fishing, women, beer and flying (not the sky floating sort!)
As a died in the wool atheist, I think it's a great debate about pollution.
I don't force my views down other peoples throats, yet there are many religious types, the ones who believe in some mythical sky floater, who do wish to forcibly impose their polluted views on non believers like me.
As such, thus is an interesting read, and is good ammo to throw back at the god botherers next time they come my way.
Sure I have beliefs, but simple realistic ones like fishing, women, beer and flying (not the sky floating sort!)
More popcorn fodder
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I'm satisfied that many of you are making a public declaration as to where you stand as to the question of Christ. Everyone makes that decision in their lives, one way or the other. Christ was mocked and tormented and, in the end, crucified by people that did not know any better (and in particular did not have 2000 years of history and learning to base an opinion on). It's a pity that many of you do not possess enough shame to at least not join their modern day equivalents. As it is, you waste your time with rather juvenile attempts to ridicule Christ and those that choose to believe He is who He says He is.
As a point of interest, I too was an atheist until my mid 20's. I decided however that there was something bothering me about the world around me and my own conscience speaking to me. From there it was a quick and easy journey to find the very God that surrounds each and every one of us with his Love. A few of you have made comments suggesting that somehow believers are 'idiots' and 'fools'. You seem to ignore the fact that throughout history many of the worlds greatest thinkers, business people and politicians have possessed a strong belief if Christ. If it was just the obvious lower educated or poor people who are looking for any relief available you would have a point. The fact that people of far grander standing than you or I (both socially and intellectually) are fervent in their beliefs suggests that maybe they have seen something about the universe around them that compels their intelligent and agile minds to conclude that some extraordinary event took place in human history, that represented our very Creator reaching down to demonstrate eternal Love for his creations. I would suggest that your pejorative comments about other people because they believe in Christ only demonstrate your own inability towards full and critical intellectual thinking. But what do I know, i'm only a 'sky fairy' believing, self-deluded fool.....
As a point of interest, I too was an atheist until my mid 20's. I decided however that there was something bothering me about the world around me and my own conscience speaking to me. From there it was a quick and easy journey to find the very God that surrounds each and every one of us with his Love. A few of you have made comments suggesting that somehow believers are 'idiots' and 'fools'. You seem to ignore the fact that throughout history many of the worlds greatest thinkers, business people and politicians have possessed a strong belief if Christ. If it was just the obvious lower educated or poor people who are looking for any relief available you would have a point. The fact that people of far grander standing than you or I (both socially and intellectually) are fervent in their beliefs suggests that maybe they have seen something about the universe around them that compels their intelligent and agile minds to conclude that some extraordinary event took place in human history, that represented our very Creator reaching down to demonstrate eternal Love for his creations. I would suggest that your pejorative comments about other people because they believe in Christ only demonstrate your own inability towards full and critical intellectual thinking. But what do I know, i'm only a 'sky fairy' believing, self-deluded fool.....
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Devil 1 God guy 0
This god guy, who was also jesus ( figure that out but if you can figure out a talking snake, man in a whale, boat full of aminals etc, it should not be dificult.) send his son/ himself on a suicide mission.
According to edition one , old testament, he came to save his people. He got surprised by the locals and they hung him... that was not part of the plan.
So they came up with the second edition, New Testament, and claim he's coming back for a rematch.
I see he has a small fan club, but I think this time the baddy's is really determined, they even fly aircraft into buildings. He might be in for another bud kicking
According to edition one , old testament, he came to save his people. He got surprised by the locals and they hung him... that was not part of the plan.
So they came up with the second edition, New Testament, and claim he's coming back for a rematch.
I see he has a small fan club, but I think this time the baddy's is really determined, they even fly aircraft into buildings. He might be in for another bud kicking
Last edited by ByAirMail; 6th Sep 2011 at 11:07.
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I only started this thread to have a moan
STP
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“If someone doesn’t value evidence, what evidence can you provide to prove they should value it? If someone doesn’t value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?” Sam Harris
Check our the Best of Sam Harris here:
Our another of my favourites; anything from Pat Condell on You Tube.
Check our the Best of Sam Harris here:
Our another of my favourites; anything from Pat Condell on You Tube.
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The power station pollution has actually reduced over the past few years (or they will now be fined) but the roadside pollution has increased year on year.
At Chinese New Year when the PRD and all its factories were shut the API reached 177 in Central. Why was that ? well simply, HK Govt mandated the old diesel buses (plying nose to tail and 95% empty for most of the day outside rush hours,) must install particulate traps - the EPD morons however in their level of incapability omitted to mandate SCR also to be fitted into the diesel vehicle exhaust systems. The result : less PM10 particulates emitted but more PM2.5 particulates and much more NO2. Take a nice steady supply of NO2, add VOCs from paint and vehicle emissions, mix in the sunlight Voila - Ozone photochemical smog- then add the PM2.5 from the power stations , diesels and the 3% sulphur bunker fuel from the ships in the busiest shipping lane in the world passing HKG as a nice yellow sticky crust on the smog and you have your 'haze' trapped in the urban canyons created by overdevelopment in Likasingville . During summer the nice south westerlies dump the **** from here into China and during the winter the northerlies reciprocate carrying the **** from Fo Shan to Hongkers.
In USA they are mandating a 200 mile Emission Control Zone for shipping and Europe has its own ECA also so why not here ? Well China controls our waters according to the HK Marine Department and they have not applied to Marpol to make our waters an ECA. duhhh. So why not make our own rules ? Ayaaah, if a Govt ****** makes a decision he / she might lose the nice cushy platinum ricebowl and future employment by the tycoons after retirement. So what about the amended (24 years old) Air Quality Standards that are lingering to be issued ? -well if the wankers applied the new standards immediately as they should, any chance of passing an Environmental Impact Assessment report for the Zhuhai bridge and 3rd runway would immediately fail. Never mind the fact they have failed to get an agreement on additional landing slots. Ah yes, how many people know that HK Govt owns half the operation of Zhuhai airport, hence the need to truck the exports to feed the aircargo at CLK. Meanwhile Macau airport has signed 5th freedom agreement with Japan for daily flights and is opening more slots for low cost carriers.
At Chinese New Year when the PRD and all its factories were shut the API reached 177 in Central. Why was that ? well simply, HK Govt mandated the old diesel buses (plying nose to tail and 95% empty for most of the day outside rush hours,) must install particulate traps - the EPD morons however in their level of incapability omitted to mandate SCR also to be fitted into the diesel vehicle exhaust systems. The result : less PM10 particulates emitted but more PM2.5 particulates and much more NO2. Take a nice steady supply of NO2, add VOCs from paint and vehicle emissions, mix in the sunlight Voila - Ozone photochemical smog- then add the PM2.5 from the power stations , diesels and the 3% sulphur bunker fuel from the ships in the busiest shipping lane in the world passing HKG as a nice yellow sticky crust on the smog and you have your 'haze' trapped in the urban canyons created by overdevelopment in Likasingville . During summer the nice south westerlies dump the **** from here into China and during the winter the northerlies reciprocate carrying the **** from Fo Shan to Hongkers.
In USA they are mandating a 200 mile Emission Control Zone for shipping and Europe has its own ECA also so why not here ? Well China controls our waters according to the HK Marine Department and they have not applied to Marpol to make our waters an ECA. duhhh. So why not make our own rules ? Ayaaah, if a Govt ****** makes a decision he / she might lose the nice cushy platinum ricebowl and future employment by the tycoons after retirement. So what about the amended (24 years old) Air Quality Standards that are lingering to be issued ? -well if the wankers applied the new standards immediately as they should, any chance of passing an Environmental Impact Assessment report for the Zhuhai bridge and 3rd runway would immediately fail. Never mind the fact they have failed to get an agreement on additional landing slots. Ah yes, how many people know that HK Govt owns half the operation of Zhuhai airport, hence the need to truck the exports to feed the aircargo at CLK. Meanwhile Macau airport has signed 5th freedom agreement with Japan for daily flights and is opening more slots for low cost carriers.
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The thing I don't understand about Christians is that when you ask about any one of the hundreds of other religions on the planet they explain that worshippers to thise religions don't get it yet that Christianity is the only true religion. Everything else isn't factual, it's made up with no scientific evidence to support it. There is no way a Christian can accept that a Buddist or Shinto believer could happily tell that Christian for the rest of their lives that Christianity isn't real but that their religion is.
If you have been bought up with, for instance Shinto, as only 119 million currently have then the whole idea of only one god is complete garbage.
But if you need your god to tell you that drinking 10 bottles of Jim Beam every night and kicking the f*ck out of your wife is a bad thing then I haven't got a problem with whatever you want to believe in.
If you have been bought up with, for instance Shinto, as only 119 million currently have then the whole idea of only one god is complete garbage.
But if you need your god to tell you that drinking 10 bottles of Jim Beam every night and kicking the f*ck out of your wife is a bad thing then I haven't got a problem with whatever you want to believe in.
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Confession time
But if you need your god to tell you that drinking 10 bottles of Jim Beam every night and kicking the f*ck out of your wife is a bad thing then I haven't got a problem with whatever you want to believe in.
Either way I'm going to hell!
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Stillabatross, a couple of comments:
1. Yes there are probably thousands of religions in existence in the world but it does not logically follow that they all must therefore be wrong. If that were the case then logically humanism would also be refuted as this is just as religious as any other philosophy.
2. The simple fact that there are so many religions is in fact consistent with what the bible actually teaches. God made us in His image so we are all naturally drawn to the questions of purpose, answered in many different ways by many different religions. It is sin that prevents us from seeing the truth. Even Richard Dawkins displays 'awe' and 'wonder' at 'nature'.
What we really need to do is honestly look at the actual evidence for any truth claim. This is where Jesus stands head and shoulders above the rest, a real man in real history that made claims that changed the world. Of course you could alternatively believe that matter and energy just popped into existence despite the laws of physics or life just started despite the laws of chemistry, but I would suspect that that path has more to do with rejecting accountability to God than any form of 'reason'.
1. Yes there are probably thousands of religions in existence in the world but it does not logically follow that they all must therefore be wrong. If that were the case then logically humanism would also be refuted as this is just as religious as any other philosophy.
2. The simple fact that there are so many religions is in fact consistent with what the bible actually teaches. God made us in His image so we are all naturally drawn to the questions of purpose, answered in many different ways by many different religions. It is sin that prevents us from seeing the truth. Even Richard Dawkins displays 'awe' and 'wonder' at 'nature'.
What we really need to do is honestly look at the actual evidence for any truth claim. This is where Jesus stands head and shoulders above the rest, a real man in real history that made claims that changed the world. Of course you could alternatively believe that matter and energy just popped into existence despite the laws of physics or life just started despite the laws of chemistry, but I would suspect that that path has more to do with rejecting accountability to God than any form of 'reason'.
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Errr...
Yes there are probably thousands of religions in existence in the world but it does not logically follow that they all must therefore be wrong.
If somebody wants to follow a particular religion then that's fine. I think the difficulty that some posters have is the evangelism spouted by others. If you choose to believe in a particular deity then that's OK but let's give the pushiness a miss.
For what it's worth, God made the pollution index drop to 34 in Tung Chung today - good on Him (capitalisation only to minimise anger from those who have faith).
As Dave Allen used to say, "May your god go with you".
STP
Last edited by Steve the Pirate; 9th Sep 2011 at 17:04. Reason: Missing apostrophe - you know how much I hate that..
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I am not debating:
STP, thanks for pointing out the obvious to those who simply cannot see it! Unfortunately, I bet they still won't see they are completely 180 degrees out in their concept of logic.
For what it's worth, I do have a problem with people who choose to believe in any particular deity, any and all of them: For example, again, the 9/11 terrorists all believed in their deity, which is what gave them the motivation to do what they did. Same applies to a zillion other deity-belief-based stories of awful things done for similar reasons (Galileo, stem cell research, Crusades, Inquisition, conquest of the Americas, circumcision, honour killing, withholding condoms, denying divorce, stoning, polygamy (for men only), Srebrenica, Taliban, Waco, etc, etc, etc....
Let's cancel freedom of religion, since everyone only means freedom of theirs, not the others, and start educating people properly - so they don't say such misinformed, invalid, misleading things, and even falsely attempt to base their ridiculous arguments in a total misunderstanding and misrepresentation of science.
Have a nice day!
STP, thanks for pointing out the obvious to those who simply cannot see it! Unfortunately, I bet they still won't see they are completely 180 degrees out in their concept of logic.
For what it's worth, I do have a problem with people who choose to believe in any particular deity, any and all of them: For example, again, the 9/11 terrorists all believed in their deity, which is what gave them the motivation to do what they did. Same applies to a zillion other deity-belief-based stories of awful things done for similar reasons (Galileo, stem cell research, Crusades, Inquisition, conquest of the Americas, circumcision, honour killing, withholding condoms, denying divorce, stoning, polygamy (for men only), Srebrenica, Taliban, Waco, etc, etc, etc....
Let's cancel freedom of religion, since everyone only means freedom of theirs, not the others, and start educating people properly - so they don't say such misinformed, invalid, misleading things, and even falsely attempt to base their ridiculous arguments in a total misunderstanding and misrepresentation of science.
Have a nice day!
Last edited by Iron Skillet; 10th Sep 2011 at 17:58.