Safety Culture & the Carriage of Li Batteries

[Bob Hawke]

Whilst reading the 49ers and Johns mention of corporate safety culture with regards to the "Challenger" accident, I couldn't help but draw parallels to our continued carriage of Li Batteries. Is this not also the case of knowing a potential problem and choosing to ignore it?

Does the moratorium on such carriage placed by Fedex and others not show a responsible Corporate Culture? Are we ignoring warnings of the danger of carriage of such DGs without also implementing a similar moratorium until the next disaster? Does the issuance of a Notice by the FAA some weeks prior to the Fedex disaster highlight that problem is already " known?"

Is it an acceptable on going flight risk?

[Bob Hawke]

Mrs Hawke is not exactly thrilled about sending me to work and asked the same question in a rather teared up fashion! What are they doing about this? Isn't it obvious they shouldnt carry until they clearly know? From the mouth of babes.....

[Cumguzzler]

Does the moratorium on such carriage placed by Fedex and others

That's news to me.

[Black Cloud]

Time for a name change Guzzler

Maaaaate, time to get a new name. I don't read your posts, despite them being relevant, as I can't handle the name you have chosen. It doesn't project that Professional air that the public expects of we pilots.

[Maid Day]

Solution:

Not ETOPS, but rahter, STOPS - short time operations

10min ability to land anywhere along the route.

Crazy we take this uncontrolled and unmonitored product of batteries airborne risking lives, especially critical of carrying lithium batteries with passengers.

There are enough boats and trucks to take care of logistics.

[welliewanger]

The trouble is...

Where do you draw the line?
Most mobile phone and laptop batteries lithium based. This video was an eye-opener for me. 6 foot flames and over 1000 degrees C!

[scavengepump]

wanger,

I think 6 tonnes in the hold is well and truly crossing the line don't you?

[SloppyJoe]

One laptop going pop will cause a panic and may burn someone but can be dealt with when its in the cabin. 6 tonnes downstairs is another story. Extinguishers do not put out this stuff very well. They usually go off during charging, personally I think in seat power is not a good idea. People can live without a laptop for 15 hours, 12 if its charged when they board.

[arse]

THE Civil Aviation Safety Authority has warned passengers not to put spare lithium ion batteries in their checked luggage because of the danger of fire.
The warning echoes those issued by other regulators after an increase in the number of incidents involving lithium batteries on aircraft and the crash of a UPS Freighter last Sepetember.
Airlines are also introducing additional dangerous goods questions to prompt people about the batteries.
CASA says the batteries used extensively in laptops, mobile phones, cameras and music players have the potential to short circuit and burn under certain conditions and the preference is to have them carried in the cabin.
"Cabin crew and flight crew are specifically trained in the management and handling of dangerous goods incidents in the aircraft cabin, including those caused by lithium battery fires and can respond quickly if an incident arises," CASA aviation safety director John McCormick said.

[Air Profit]

The AOA needs to put out a statement quite clearly stating that it is unacceptable to carry Lithium batteries on pax aircraft. Surely this is risking an airline ending tragedy.

[ETOPS240]

Originally Posted by Air Profit

The AOA needs to put out a statement quite clearly stating that it is unacceptable to carry Lithium batteries on pax aircraft. Surely this is risking an airline ending tragedy.

Agreed.

Here, money is the only thing that talks, and given the recent (very well documented) events including these batteries have caused - and possibly the downfall of yet another 744 - the financial ramifications of something similar happening aboard one of our pax 400s would threaten the whole company.

[geh065]

I think lithium batteries are so commonplace it would be hard to ban them completely. digital cameras, iPads, iphones etc... all have them. When we see a batch of litium batteries on the NOTOC it is often a shipment of mobile phones or iPads, not just boxes full of batteries.

That said, there should be more restrictions on what we can carry as well as how they are packaged. Maybe manufacturers can make some way of making them inert on demand?

[Iron Skillet]

Why is a suggested ban on pax a/c suitable, if the risk is so great, while freighter pilots remain expendable?

[Oval3Holer]

Passenger pilots are expendable, too. It's just the passengers sitting behind (or, in a 747, forward of) them are not.

[Bob Hawke]

CASA issues warning

It seems that CASA in Australia have issued a warning about the carriage of batteries in Checked Luggage. This seems to be sensible approach, now what about Freighters? Isn't that where the problem has manifested itself.

CASA issues alert on flying with lithium batteries | The Australian

[SloppyJoe]

And what about passenger aircraft carrying them as freight in the hold?

[Basil]

Why is a suggested ban on pax a/c suitable, if the risk is so great, while freighter pilots remain expendable?

Because freighter pilots are coarse types who frequent undesirable establishments and frighten gentlefolk

I don't have access to an IATA DGR manual and I'm not about to pay $300 for one. If at least one of you is really a pilot then how about having a look next time you go to work and give us a precis of the current Lithium Metal and Lithium Ion regs re pax & freight aircraft?