Direct Entry Hiring

[Harbour Dweller]

Contrary to popular belief interviewers do peruse a number of social forums including this one. It won’t take them very long to work out who you are. After all there aren’t many applicants with 3-4000 hours total, work for a regional airline in Australia, have a Bachelor Science Aviation degree and are in their late 20’s.

Wise words from 404 Titan

[built4flying83]

i personally know of 5 others. who knows how many more...25 maybe. so what if they find out, im the one that is positive about their program and your trying to shred it to bits.

titan 404 you have a bad attitude full stop. don't try and threaten someone on this forum with the job that you are downplaying so poorly.

You are a sanctimonious little pr*ck aren’t you?

pull your head in

[aviationboy]

i would hate to be in the cockpit with built4flying83

[built4flying83]

good input aviation boy...
i can just imagine you and 404 titan in the cruise trying to out do each other on who has it worse and what has the world come to...something like "you think you got it bad mate, I had to blah blah blah" that would be a delightful atmosphere to work in...not.

[joebanana]

Anybody know where the bike sheds are in CX city? Somebody needs to send this boy there for some 'education'

[404 Titan]

built4flying83

so what if they find out, im the one that is positive about their program and your trying to shred it to bits.

Let me give you some more advice. Being positive about this iCad program won’t get you the job here. Infact for 99% of the applicants it won’t even get them an interview. One of the biggest criteria we look for in prospective new pilots is whether you will fit in, i.e. will most pilots here be able to sit with you for 14+ hours at a time without wanting to rip your head off? So far you will fit in as well as pork sausage and bacon breakfast in sunny downtown Riyadh during Ramadan. Maybe this is why you f**ked up with your JQ interview last year. You're obviously a very slow learner.

titan 404 you have a bad attitude full stop.

My colleagues and employer would beg to differ with your assumption.

don't try and threaten someone on this forum with the job that you are downplaying so poorly.

Where have I downplayed this job? I have been very critical of the iCad program only because of the T&C’s being offered, not because of the job being offered. If you’re so fragile that you take what was advice as a threat then you are incredibly thin skinned.

You are a sanctimonious little pr*ck aren’t you?

pull your head in

One could advise you to do the same.

Sanctimonious is still a very befitting description of you.

[built4flying83]

titan 404

titan, you are about as stable as a drunk on shaky ground (thought id rip out the old cheesy sayings since you started it). One minute you saying the standards are quite low and next minute your saying its hard to get in.

Let me give you some more advice

You like giving advice don't you, its almost a reflex action isn't it with your 2000+ posts. This figure alone suggests something is not quite right. Yes yes you have been around for years but even so. You are a highly paid cathay pilot, go out and enjoy your life dont sit on pprune all day conversing/telling guys 10+ years your junior what to do.

Sanctimonious is still a very befitting description of you

I guess a description of a 32yr old joining cathay and 12 years later a proud ppruner with more than 2000 posts is very befitting of you.

[404 Titan]

built4flying83

One minute you saying the standards are quite low and next minute your saying its hard to get in.

You mind quoting where I have said that? Mind you, you couldn’t even get into Jetstar so I suppose they are scraping the bottom of the barrel with the likes of you.

You like giving advice don't you, its almost a reflex action isn't it with your 2000+ posts.

If your reading and comprehension skills were better you would have seen most of the advice I have given in the past was helping wannabes like you get in here before the iCad scheme.

This figure alone suggests something is not quite right. Yes yes you have been around for years but even so. You are a highly paid cathay pilot, go out and enjoy your life dont sit on pprune all day conversing/telling guys 10+ years your junior what to do.

Welcome to long haul flying where having to stay up all night down route and sleeping all day is the only way to keep cumulative fatigue under check, ie staying on one time zone. This is your future lifestyle if you make it in.

titan, you are about as stable as a drunk on shaky ground

I guess a description of a 32yr old joining cathay and 12 years later a proud ppruner with more than 2000 posts is very befitting of you.

Is that the best you can do? Please have another shot, I'm enjoying it.

[built4flying83]

Is that the best you can do? Please have another shot, I'm enjoying it.

good stuff...me too, was getting worried you weren't.. and start going going off your rocker again as per 50% of your posts...
hmm another shot..don't tempt me. It's not like you are going to say yeah you got me nailed.
how bout the typical guy that came from another industry with a chip on his shoulder as he thinks he can bring a fresh / more educated take on situations compared to the plebs who arent accountants?

[404 Titan]

built4flying83
Wow you’ve just figured out I have an Accounting degree. Good for you. At least I don’t make an ass of myself trying to big nose my qualifications like you have done just recently.

I've got close to 4000hrs with 2000 hrs twin turbine plus university degree. So no not an idiot. I don't think so anyway haha. I got a good chance I've had more aviation jobs and experience then you by the sounds of things

how bout the typical guy that came from another industry with a chip on his shoulder as he thinks he can bring a fresh / more educated take on situations compared to the plebs who arent accountants?

You base this statement on what sunshine? If you don't like the financial advice I have given regarding the iCad scheme, tough. I say it how I see it. It’s obvious you only want to see it from a point of blissful ignorance.

[IFB]

To all the CX wannabes

I can understand the desire to join a legacy carrier like CX and at first glance the contract they offer with the forgivable loan etc may even look good, especially if you are a youngster new to the aviation game. However the simply fact is if you have a long term girlfriend/wife or kids then the money they are offering will pay for at best a well below average life in HK. Even the most basic of necessities to support a western lifestyle would be a struggle and luxuries or savings of any kind will be an impossible dream.

Built4flying83

I agree with those that have posted that us in the company should be the ones to fight for better conditions for all and I would never expect somebody else to fight my battles. In short I have no axe to grind with new joiners, but instead feel they are getting an extremely poor deal with this new icadet scheme. That said I have to assume either you are very rich or just have not done your homework on living expenses in HK. If you do manage to pass the interview and join cx then I fear you will discover very quickly why so many people are extremely critical of the current offer. Sadly for you by then you will be chained to the company for 6 years after which you will still have very limited experience that could land you a job elsewhere. Most companies do not recognise the CX P2S rating. If you wish to leave early the cost to you would be eye watering. The point is if you join, then you would be stuck here for a long time living an extremely frugal existence. Companies around the world are starting to hire so I would strongly recommend you look elsewhere before accepting the CX offer. Tread very carefully and do not complain that you have not been warned!

[built4flying83]

titan404 you are starting to bore me now.... you like the sound of your own voice / opinions hence the 2000+ posts. it's been fun sparring with you.

IFB thanks for the heads up, will take it on board as you put it abit more tactful than others...

[built4flying83]

IFB also, say it is the case where its pretty bad lifestyle and i served my 6 years. Good chance ill be a FO by then right? on 93,000 HK /month (this includes the HKPA). Surely that is enough to live abit more to your standards?
now that we are being productive here, whats the allowances one can expect with overnights, meals etc.. over a year, obviously it will be diff with aircrafdt types and so forth..quote each type if anyone can

[IFB]

Actually I think with current trends you would more likely be a JFO. At present it is over 4 years to JFO and with new Flight Time limits on the way, plus fleet expansion I can only realistically see that time increasing. I may be wrong on this, but that is my best guess. What I would say is any info you are given stating less than 4 years to JFO is hugely optimistic at best.

However, even if you make FO you still have to take into account how your life will change over that period. Most people want to get married and have a family and save for the future. This means you would need a bigger place and to pay for school fees plus extra food energy etc. All of which is going to eat into that 93K at an alarming rate, not to mention inflation. By the way do not bank on pay rises helping with inflation. The last pay rise took 10 years!!!!! Additionally HK seems to be bucking the global trend with house/rent prices soaring. You could take a gamble that that will level out/reverse, but are you really willing to gamble your future families lifestyle on that?

Allowances vary from city to city, but if you are thinking about using them to supplement your income then the alarm bells should already be ringing. Even if I lived on noodles during my patterns and did not go out at all the additional cash saved would be enough to give me perhaps 2 decent nights out a month in HK ie 3-4000HKD.

In my opinion if you are early to mid 20’s, single, no aviation experience and prepared to live with mates for a few years then CX is a possible starter airline. Once the loan is paid off and you have some relevant experience 7-9 yrs at a guess then you could look at another legacy carrier in cheaper locations and still be young enough to start from the bottom. However if you
are 28+ by the time you break free of the loan with the necessary experience starting at the bottom with nothing behind you finically is going to
be tough especially on a family. Do you really want to be 35+ before you can even think about a pension, descent family holiday, house with more than2 bedrooms etc!

[JY9024]

built4flying83

You have just hit the nail on the head with your last post, mentioning allowances in the same context as your monthly wage, just goes to show how desperate things can really be. Unless you are willing to eat spam with a plastic fork in your room then you might be left with a couple of hundred at the end of a 3 day pattern.

I was once on around $90000 per month and with a wife and child to support, I was digging into my savings just to survive.

Yes, as a single person sharing a flat you will do fine, but you will not be able to afford the lifestyle of your peers here in HK on expat conditions, we have many expat pilots that have joined on local packages due to them having ID cards prior to joining.
After the novelty of the job wears off, and it will, you will spend you entire existence trying to convince everyone else that you should be rewarded as an expat, and as much as we would like to be sympathetic to your cause, at the end of the day, you signed the dotted line.

Dont be critical of the people who post here, we are frustrated at seeing our profession going in this direction as much as anyone, unfortunately for now at least, you are the one who will be under the financial burden and setting the scene for the next round of cutbacks in conditions.

Good luck with your interview.

JY

[built4flying83]

it is good to hear from some other people.

Unless you are willing to eat spam with a plastic fork in your room then you might be left with a couple of hundred at the end of a 3 day pattern

yeah i get what you are saying, but what i find is... i do spend 70% of the allowances while im overnighting somewhere, but when the pay packet comes in i usually end up with more than if i didnt do any trips as I was eating/drinking allowance money those 3 nights, not digging into base salary and eating food from home. You don't find this the case?

Lets work on 4 trips a month. 1600HK per trip better off x 4 = 6400HK /month additional ?? lets be conservative and say it is half that so 3200HK /month, thats going to help a little bit?

Dont be critical of the people who post here, we are frustrated at seeing our profession going in this direction as much as anyone, unfortunately for now at least, you are the one who will be under the financial burden and setting the scene for the next round of cutbacks in conditions.

I understand, i am just a bit skeptical of their intentions. It must be frustrating when im trying to outlne the positives when the salary has been cut in half for new hires? You are probably thinking managment are watching this thread and are saying they don't need to raise conditions.

Don't get me wrong, i would rather be on 35,000 + HKPA 64,000 = 99,000 HK$, from the day dot. (old scheme)

Another thing to consider is the lower tax in HK compared to other parts of the world when you start earning relative high amounts.
What does a captain earn these days?

[yokebearer]

lets be conservative and say it is half that so 3200HK /month, thats going to help a little bit?

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

You seriously are willing to justify CX cutting the package for pilots coming to HKG by more than 50% with this drivel???

$3000 ??? Who gives a #$% about $ 3000 when your overall renumeration will be $ 50 000 a month less than mine was at the same rank????

If you want to take the job - then take it. But please stop trying to justify it.

[captain.weird]

Hi captains,

Firstly I really want to thank you guys to warn us and give us advice! But what would you guys recommend? Waiting for the DEFO openings? Will they ever come and will Cathay give the original allowances which the iCadets don't get? It is a nice place to live, if you can effort it. I think a pilot can life on the iCadet packages, but not really comfortable! It is more surviving and dealing with an adventure than chill out and doing things with your friends or family.

I've already read tha if you are under your twenties, no spouse, no flight experience, then life can be 'good'. But isn't it better to get the licences, building up some hours, maybe even get command at a lo-co and then move up to Cathay? So let's say you are then in your early 30's? Is that a better deal? Or just entering as a 20yrs old, with no flight experience into the iCadet scheme and get ASAP onto that seniority list!

Thanks in advance, and PM would be okay too!

[yokebearer]

Hey CAPT Weird - it is better to learn to spell first.

[aviationboy]

Built4flying83,

If you really have 4000 total you should strongly consider looking elsewhere. You are overqualified for an SO position at CX. Lots of FO jobs around at the moment which would be worth looking at first. I have just under 2000 TP and consider myself overqualified for the job, especially looking at the salary.

If you are going to ditch Australia for a job, it might as well be a decent paying one. Remember, finding work back here isn't easy if you ever decide to come back