Direct Entry Hiring
There is a solution, Widecut.
Contract Compliance and a training ban. Possibly a press campaign. There are also good people on this internet forum, amongst all the tripe being written, telling those considering this appalling package 'how it is' (or how it would be for them) regarding life in Hong Kong and with the airline.
Then, maybe, the airline will consider going back to what 'core values' it used to have and pay good money for quality crew. Win/win.
This is serious business. This is about undercutting crew who have worked damned hard to get where they are, and short term management savings to enhance bonuses, to the detriment of the company. It is also about the safety of the travelling public; there are serious questions being asked in some First World countries regarding the conditions of employment, experience levels and competence of up-and-coming airline pilots.
Sanctimonious posts about how we should 'all get along' and 'stop sniping' etc mean nothing.
Contract Compliance and a training ban. Possibly a press campaign. There are also good people on this internet forum, amongst all the tripe being written, telling those considering this appalling package 'how it is' (or how it would be for them) regarding life in Hong Kong and with the airline.
Then, maybe, the airline will consider going back to what 'core values' it used to have and pay good money for quality crew. Win/win.
This is serious business. This is about undercutting crew who have worked damned hard to get where they are, and short term management savings to enhance bonuses, to the detriment of the company. It is also about the safety of the travelling public; there are serious questions being asked in some First World countries regarding the conditions of employment, experience levels and competence of up-and-coming airline pilots.
Sanctimonious posts about how we should 'all get along' and 'stop sniping' etc mean nothing.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 9th Aug 2011 at 00:19.
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Widecut.......you simply can't be a Cathay pilot and make the statements you did. Impossible! You're obviously a non-pilot attempting a stalking horse maneuver.....
As such, you would know that the Simulator department has recently conducted a hiring spree.....at first, they tried to recruit experienced pilots without offering housing allowance......but instead, only offered local terms. No new applicants would accept the job. None!
The Simulator Training Manager insisted to the recruiting department that they would not be able to recruit any new instructors until a housing allowance was back on the table. Result: Zero applicants accepted the job. It wasn't until the management got real and offered housing allowance that they were able to hire new instructors.
Your comparison to pilots not receiving housing allowance in their home countries is not comparing apples to apples. It must be apparent to you THAT WE LIVE IN CHINA!! If Cathay wants to recruit first world pilots to leave their home countries and MOVE THEIR FAMILIES TO CHINA, then they have to subsidize the move and pay housing allowance.
Your statement that we expect to be treated like a King or Queen is offensive.
As such, you would know that the Simulator department has recently conducted a hiring spree.....at first, they tried to recruit experienced pilots without offering housing allowance......but instead, only offered local terms. No new applicants would accept the job. None!
The Simulator Training Manager insisted to the recruiting department that they would not be able to recruit any new instructors until a housing allowance was back on the table. Result: Zero applicants accepted the job. It wasn't until the management got real and offered housing allowance that they were able to hire new instructors.
Your comparison to pilots not receiving housing allowance in their home countries is not comparing apples to apples. It must be apparent to you THAT WE LIVE IN CHINA!! If Cathay wants to recruit first world pilots to leave their home countries and MOVE THEIR FAMILIES TO CHINA, then they have to subsidize the move and pay housing allowance.
Your statement that we expect to be treated like a King or Queen is offensive.
Last edited by raven11; 9th Aug 2011 at 02:52.
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British Airways In A Major Recruitment Drive
British Airways today launched what it says is its biggest recruitment drive in over a decade, with plans to hire more than 800 pilots in the next five years.
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What is the general feeling about the transition trained guys? The most recent interviews that have been conducted in Vancouver have all been guys with 3-4000 hours with PIC and turbo-prop and some jet experience even. There has been a lot of talk about all the new hires being no-talent clowns but there are hopefully a few experienced guys on their way over.
Also I am curious about what an experienced pilot is supposed to do if they were to get a call from CX offering an interview and eventually maybe a job. Turn it down on principle? Even if that happened and then the COS changed and people were hired with better contracts and the world was happy once again, should I feel good about my service to the industry while I'm still slogging around the coast in my turbo-prop? And that's a serious question. I realize the importance of standards in the industry but what pilot is going to sacrifice himself for the better of the rest? Indeed, there will always be a Joe Blow breathing down your neck waiting for you to stumble so he can trample over you to the "Major Airline" promise land.
Looking out for number 1 seems to be what we have always done, yes?
Also I am curious about what an experienced pilot is supposed to do if they were to get a call from CX offering an interview and eventually maybe a job. Turn it down on principle? Even if that happened and then the COS changed and people were hired with better contracts and the world was happy once again, should I feel good about my service to the industry while I'm still slogging around the coast in my turbo-prop? And that's a serious question. I realize the importance of standards in the industry but what pilot is going to sacrifice himself for the better of the rest? Indeed, there will always be a Joe Blow breathing down your neck waiting for you to stumble so he can trample over you to the "Major Airline" promise land.
Looking out for number 1 seems to be what we have always done, yes?
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Look after number 1
Looking out for number 1 seems to be what we have always done, yes?
At the moment, a new joiner today will likely face 4 years as SO, followed by probably 10 to 11 years minimum as an FO before even thinking about command. These numbers will likely not improve, but actually get worse.
As harsh as it sounds, I suspect that anyone with 3-4000 hrs who joins on local terms will receive very little sympathy from the rest of us if they ever lament their financial struggles.
And don't even think that a base is an option. It's not the easy path that the management might be trying to sell to you. There are no basings for SOs (see above 4 years min), then you get to upgrade & join the queue for an FO base. Without knowing your specific basing preference I can't comment specifically, but the truth is that many FO bases are full with a waiting list, and some guys on them have foregone command to remain on their base as an FO whilst awaiting a command base vacancy (in seniority order), which, to be honest, is a case of waiting for someone to die or retire.
As an added incentive, speak to an SO who was looking for a FO base in the future, who has now lost that opportunity because the company hired direct entry FOs on some bases, and although the base slots were offered "in house" first, SOs weren't able to bid on them.
Add in the fact that CX has made such a hash of basings with onshoring, legal & tax issues, that they have frozen bases for the time being, so no one can get one at the moment, until they sort the mess out.
So, if you really are objective about what CX are offering, your rejection of the current new joiner contract will not be a "service to the industry" as you put it, but a case of looking after number 1.
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broadband is absolutely right....
Cathay used to offer top of the line contracts to its pilots, and as such had no trouble recruiting the very best pilots from around the world. Every single pliot recruited was hired either directly from another main line carrier, or they were the very best pilots from the military. Every pilot on the planet was trying to get in.
A cost cutting culture took hold in the nineties, that continues to run on inertia today.....with a central strategy to offer new pilots less and less benefits with the aim being to save more and more money. Obviously, this had a direct bearing on the quality of new hires. Reaching its nadir today where high quality, experienced pilots don't even bother to apply. Instead, they seem content to hire candidates with zero experience, offer to train them, as long as the new hires agree to local terms (read no housing allowance).
As broadband stated, there is zero chance of getting a base....the basing system is in a mess, and as such, they've been completely frozen....and you can't live in Hong Kong with what is being offered today. You simply can't.
Those of us living in Hong Kong do so on our old contracts. It would not be possible to live here and raise a family on what is being offered in the new contracts. Impossible.
Cathay is a great Airline to fly for, but the flying will wear thin very quickly if you can't support your family, or save for a decent retirement....I suggest you wait until a better (read...more realistic) package is offered.
Cathay used to offer top of the line contracts to its pilots, and as such had no trouble recruiting the very best pilots from around the world. Every single pliot recruited was hired either directly from another main line carrier, or they were the very best pilots from the military. Every pilot on the planet was trying to get in.
A cost cutting culture took hold in the nineties, that continues to run on inertia today.....with a central strategy to offer new pilots less and less benefits with the aim being to save more and more money. Obviously, this had a direct bearing on the quality of new hires. Reaching its nadir today where high quality, experienced pilots don't even bother to apply. Instead, they seem content to hire candidates with zero experience, offer to train them, as long as the new hires agree to local terms (read no housing allowance).
As broadband stated, there is zero chance of getting a base....the basing system is in a mess, and as such, they've been completely frozen....and you can't live in Hong Kong with what is being offered today. You simply can't.
Those of us living in Hong Kong do so on our old contracts. It would not be possible to live here and raise a family on what is being offered in the new contracts. Impossible.
Cathay is a great Airline to fly for, but the flying will wear thin very quickly if you can't support your family, or save for a decent retirement....I suggest you wait until a better (read...more realistic) package is offered.
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Bscales started it all
Raven, A scale didn't let down B scale. The AOA sent out letters to all prospective B scalers pointing out the high cost of living in HK and that the package was not good enough etc. It was meant as a read between the lines...don't come here right now. But they did. They offered to do our jobs for less. What is it people that offer to do someone elses job for less are called? Of course once CX reliezed people would come they went lower, and lower and lower. I am guessing you dont like having others undercut your position, convienent memory. Yes we could have walked off the job back then, but then again so could have you when they brought in ASL or the last direct entry group or any number of new contracts. Perhaps all B scalers could have refused commands until the deal was corrected or no S/O upgrade until they dropped the direct entry idea last time. Don't point the finger just at A scale there are lots of fingers pointing backwards at you.
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Originally Posted by cxflyer
A scale didn't let down B scale
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Cxflyer......?
You missundersood me mate......I am an A scaler! I'm not pointing a finger at anyone???
My intention was to give a brief history of why things are the way they are.....and to let new joiners know the reality regarding the cost of living in Hong Kong.
You missundersood me mate......I am an A scaler! I'm not pointing a finger at anyone???
My intention was to give a brief history of why things are the way they are.....and to let new joiners know the reality regarding the cost of living in Hong Kong.
Last edited by raven11; 13th Aug 2011 at 09:41.
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raven you would be retiring soon wouldnt you?
take the rest of your ex military buddies with you
cost of living in hong kong is no secret classified document, i've done the research
take the rest of your ex military buddies with you
cost of living in hong kong is no secret classified document, i've done the research
Last edited by built4flying83; 13th Aug 2011 at 14:19.
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Geesh......
Builtforflying (gag..) you're just the candidate they're looking for.....in the mean time, why don't you return to the wannabe forum where you normally hang out.
Oh, and by the way, I'm not retiring for about 10 years......apparently I'm still needed to ensure the passengers get to their destination safely.....
That kind of says everything one needs know about candidates like you.
Builtforflying (gag..) you're just the candidate they're looking for.....in the mean time, why don't you return to the wannabe forum where you normally hang out.
Oh, and by the way, I'm not retiring for about 10 years......apparently I'm still needed to ensure the passengers get to their destination safely.....
That kind of says everything one needs know about candidates like you.
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Oh, and by the way, I'm not retiring for about 10 years......apparently I'm still needed to ensure the passengers get to their destination safely.....
Last edited by built4flying83; 13th Aug 2011 at 14:57.
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Builtforflying.....
What......???
You said earlier you had done the research....well obviously, you haven't.
Even as incoherent as your last post was, try using the spell check feature next time...
What......???
You said earlier you had done the research....well obviously, you haven't.
Even as incoherent as your last post was, try using the spell check feature next time...
Last edited by raven11; 13th Aug 2011 at 14:57.
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I originally thought Built4PrisonRape was a management plant, but i'm completely positive that he is just a Troll. Stop wasting our time please.
hows the dash 8 treating you? still think its like a 747, only slower and lower
how bout 300ppl less too..you follow a cathay thread when you turned down the deal? of course you are only going to see it one sided from this point in, even if they jack up the conditions you'll still try to justify your decision of turning it down.
built4flying83
You are a sanctimonious little pr*ck aren’t you? You ridicule someone because they knocked back a job with CX yet you couldn’t even pass an interview with Jetstar last August. Maybe Jetstar got confused with your hours because you obviously are? Was it 4000 hours or only 3000 hours? Maybe they got dazzled with your Bachelor Science Aviation degree?
Let me give you a little advice. Applicants for the “Transitional” course are very thin on the ground at CX. Contrary to popular belief interviewers do peruse a number of social forums including this one. It won’t take them very long to work out who you are. After all there aren’t many applicants with 3-4000 hours total, work for a regional airline in Australia, have a Bachelor Science Aviation degree and are in their late 20’s.
You are a sanctimonious little pr*ck aren’t you? You ridicule someone because they knocked back a job with CX yet you couldn’t even pass an interview with Jetstar last August. Maybe Jetstar got confused with your hours because you obviously are? Was it 4000 hours or only 3000 hours? Maybe they got dazzled with your Bachelor Science Aviation degree?
Let me give you a little advice. Applicants for the “Transitional” course are very thin on the ground at CX. Contrary to popular belief interviewers do peruse a number of social forums including this one. It won’t take them very long to work out who you are. After all there aren’t many applicants with 3-4000 hours total, work for a regional airline in Australia, have a Bachelor Science Aviation degree and are in their late 20’s.
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Yep Dash is treating me just fine. I fly 4-8 legs a day and get an OK pay, and lots of days off. Better jobs out there sure....just not the current CX deal.
Yep I follow it, it is fun to follow these threads, I was almost over in HK at CX with the original DESO package, I would have been happy to eat sandwiches and make beds. I'll just have to get in the next time the DEFO's start getting hired.
What about you, are you going to go to CX? Did they accept you? I know that I'M good enough, now are you?
Yep I follow it, it is fun to follow these threads, I was almost over in HK at CX with the original DESO package, I would have been happy to eat sandwiches and make beds. I'll just have to get in the next time the DEFO's start getting hired.
What about you, are you going to go to CX? Did they accept you? I know that I'M good enough, now are you?